Ex partner wants to take the kids to Spain for 3 nights

[sunshinecm]

It would be great to get some advice from folks on here who have allowed their kids to travel abroad with their ex-partner. I am dubious that a trip abroad with two children is safe when travelling as a single adult.

My children are 5 and 7. They have a great relationship with their Dad, which has grown strong after our separation. They enjoy staying with him, regularly he takes them for 48 hours on alternating weekends.

However, I am not comfortable with them flying abroad. It's just not safe for one adult to take young kids out of the UK on their own. I have taken them abroad, but I have had myself and someone else with me to support.

I have suggested a UK holiday instead. The kids are absolutely desparate to go to Legoland or to Cbeebies world. I have suggested that if it's important for him to take a plane with the kids, he could fly to England from Scotland.

This is a big compromise for me as 1-2 nights in Central Scotland is by far what I would have been most comfortable with. I extended that though because I want an amicable relationship with him.

Has anyone else had to go through this?

I understand you want to stop him doing something fun and exciting with the kids that they'll enjoy while you're not there providing it.

They're his kids too and they have a right to time with dad.

I get that you'll miss them - and you're looking for an excuse to say no.

It's silly to paint a Spanish holiday trip with dad as if he's taking them hiking in Colombia. Get a sense of proportion.

Projecting this level of anxiety over children traveling on holiday with their own father isn't good for the children.

Plan something nice for yourself, maybe family, friends, something kids wouldn't want to do like a spa or the theatre, while they're away so you're busy and enjoying yourself.

And blocking him from doing something with his own kids may get a reaction - and he'd feel justified in stopping you doing something with them later.

Not saying he would but it would be understandable.

Let them go. Stop catastrophising over nothing.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I wasn't expecting so many! I'll have to admit it was a difficult read. I have been thinking it over today and thinking I should not stand in the way of the trip. But I think there are a few small things that would really help to get me comfortable. Please tell me what you think and please be kind

• Travels with another adult and knowing who it is so I can talk to the kids about it
• Knowing the flight times and hotel name
• 3 nights ideally
• Getting one text a day to let me know how it’s going on the holiday
• Letting me know when they have boarded the flight on the way home

He hasn't taken them swimming for sometime either, so I think it would be good for him to take them swimming a few times before they go so that he understands their swimming ability.

I feel like that is quite reasonable because that way the kids get the holiday and I know that they're safe.

Oh, @sunshinecm you’re worrying far too much

Do you mean you want to try to insist on another adult being there? Or is someone else going?

How would you feel if he began issuing you list of tasks that must be completed before you could do something with your own kids?

You're reasonable to ask if he can let you know hotel name etc, and ask for a quick message when he has time, the rest is ridiculous tbh.

You just can't specify that they travel with 2 adults though. If they are going with another adult apart from the dad then yes I'd think it's reasonable to know (but surely your children are old enough to tell you that anyway).

I don't really think you can specify the length either

Everything else seems ok.

@sunshinecm hi, I do understand but you can’t put these conditions on him. You can ask him nicely but you can’t expect this. You need to lower your expectations as they come across as demands, which restrict his access to his own children. It’s a lovely gesture he wants to take them away and unless he is a complete imbecile it’s not clear why you are treating him this way. What specifically is concerning you about the care he provides the children and does he requires so many restrictions and instructions? He is going away without you which is hard but he will be busy with your kids, consistently having to mind your needs will distract from that. If you want him to focus on the kids safety then adding a whole new layer of systems in place to allay your anxiety isn’t about the kids. It’s about you. And it’s unfair. And not in your kids best interest at all it doesn’t benefit them

I think it's reasonable to know where they are going and agree to contact (although they are going for 3 days not weeks) but the rest isn't reasonable and I would say no to my ex if he dictated that to me.

I get feeling apprehensive about your children being out of the country (I would feel the same) but this is the reality of being separated.

You can't insist on another adult going! And in a way he might actually be more focused on the kids and less likely to be distracted if he takes them on his own rather than with another adult.

I think letting him know you're nervous about it and asking for a text to confirm they've got there ok is reasonable though.

You can't make him take another adult with him on holiday. I'm sorry but just because you think you wouldn't be able to cope with 2 kids abroad doesn't mean other people can't. Plenty of single parents take their kids on holiday without any problems. It just you just want to put obstacles in his way

Is he a capable adult and father OP? I am just puzzled as to why you feel another adult is important.

Here are some practical suggestions

Please speak to someone about your anxiety

ask him flight times and check them yourself on sky scanner. You can check when they land yourself

make some activities for yourself to do whilst they are away to keep you busy

ask him if he needs your help and if he doesn’t, accept this as he will be fine

ask him for a text while he is away to check in and don’t bother him if he is busy with the kids and doesn’t do it on your timeline

try to ask yourself whether him expending his energy on your anxiety rather than focusing on your kids is what you really want

Op, I get you are worried but how about reframing things.

1. that sounds fabulous, will you get any help with the kids? It will be full on with both kids on holiday with just you. If not, have you looked at holiday club activities for the kids?
2. agree that you will share future holiday details (travel and accommodation) with him and is he ok sharing with you.
3. its his choice, let it go
4. a commitment he will take loads of photos and he can share them with you as often as he wants. Asking to say good night/morning or a text is fine. Again as long as you are happy to return the favour to him. If you think that would be unreasonable to do for him then you shouldn’t be asking it of him.
5. a reassuring text when on the way home is reasonable

I suppose if you are co parenting well, you can have this conversation more easily. Recognise your own fears/anxieties and think about both what you would be happy to do to reassure ex and what is getting in the way of someone’s holidays or is you being controlling.

You are still being unreasonable op.

I took my ex to court for permission to take my DC on holiday to Spain (I am the resident parent) and the Judge practically laughed him out of court. He gave me a residency order which means that I can take them wherever, whenever. And if I felt like telling him where and when it would be a courtesy not a requirement.

You cannot demand that another adult accompanies him.

You cannot demand only 3 nights.

You cannot demand to know the location, never mind flight times or hotel name.

You cannot demand daily texts or to know they have boarded their return flight.

If he agrees to any of this it would be as a courtesy. I assume you have no reason to believe he is an unsafe parent, or that he would refuse to return the dc.

If you refuse permission he CAN take you to court and he WILL be given permission.

This is all about you, and your insecurities. Make it about the children.

Travels with another adult and knowing who it is so I can talk to the kids about it

No! This is not reasonable! If you died, he'd be their sole guardian! You need to trust him to look after his own children.

In reality you can't make any demands. For your children's sake you need to work with their dad and not turn this into a fight or even legal proceedings, which you will lose.
How did you negotiate your previous trip abroad with the children? Did you provide your ex the information and contact you will be requesting? Since the precedent has been set then hopefully your ex will appreciate that you gave him the same consideration you are asking for.
I don't think it is reasonable to try to insist another adult goes with them. He is their Dad. Have you any reason to think he is not capable of looking after them?
Three days is very short for a break. If you want your children to get the most from their trip then surely you want them to have time to enjoy it.
Of course it is reasonable to ask to know flight times and the name of the hotel.
A message once a day is a reasonable request.
You should only present this trip to your children as a positive thing. Be excited for them (fake it If you have to) If you set up a family messenger group and tell them how happy and excited you are for their great adventure then I am sure they will love to save photos and share them with you. You will probably end up getting lots of updates throughout the day.
A text when they are about to board the plane (both ways) is a reasonable request too.
If you show your children you are unhappy then they won't feel comfortable talking to you about their trip. They will be reluctant to talk about it or update you because they won't want to upset you. You have to put your children first, no matter how much it hurts you.

Travels with another adult and knowing who it is so I can talk to the kids about it
Does he have a history of being irresponsible? I think this is up to him
Knowing the flight times and hotel name
I think this is fair enough.
3 nights ideally
It doesnt seem worth it to me, but i also hated being away from my DC for longer than this so understand.

Getting one text a day to let me know how it’s going on the holiday
Again fair enough.
Letting me know when they have boarded the flight on the way home
Fair enough.

Of course you can't insist on any of those things and I imagine that the judge would be on his side if you refused and he took you to court.

You can't demand he takes another adult. He might not want to! He's within his rights to enjoy a holiday alone with his children.

You can ask for the flight times and hotel name. I'd be happy to provide these, I might even share them anyway as I'd be excited about it!

3 nights isn't very long. My kids dad has them for no more than 2 nights in a row usually, but he had them for 7 or more nights each time they went abroad. I made use of the break and booked myself flights away as soon as he confirmed his!

I'd let him know if you think he has overestimated their swimming ability. Just tell him if they need arm bands etc. he won't be leaving them to swim alone at that age anyway.

Of course it's safe, you are being ridiculous

@sunshinecm you can’t demand any of these things. He is just as much a parent as you. You don’t have to be comfortable to allow him to go. He can apply and go without your approval. And I can’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be granted. You don’t get the final say and to insist it’s on your terms.

Sorry OP but you are being completely unreasonable. They're 5 and 7 not 1 and 3 - one adult should be able to look after them abroad. He doesn't need another adult and 3 nights is still really really short.

Knowing the hotel and flight details is absolutely fine and it depends on your coparenting relationship as to whether there's extra messages and contact.

They'll have a great time with him.

Of course it’s safe. I could understand if they were babies and he had his hands full but at those ages he’d be fine. My DH would be.

You are still being unreasonable OP.

Most people can cope with taking 2 (or more) kids on holiday overseas. Just because you needed help, it doesn’t mean he does. Let that one go.

Asking for flight numbers is reasonable. Why would you assume that they wouldn’t board their flight when you can look it up on the airport website ? I e done this so I can be (privately) neurotic and not ruin their holiday.

Yanbu to discuss their swimming ability with him. It’s up to him how he deals with that info.

As you get along, a photo a day would be nice but again, you need to learn to trust him. (I assume that he tells you when things go wrong)

If he took too you to court then he’d get permission for a much longer holiday and you’ll rightly be told off for trying to be controlling. Ask your ex for the dates, flight and hotel and don’t be so controlling. Dads can be capable parents too and just because he’s not as anxious as you, it doesn’t mean he’s doing it wrong.

Why does he need another adult (unless you're afraid he won't supervise them properly/has a drink problem/ is short tempered) etc etc

Why would it be unsafe? And why are you trying to micromanage what your children's father does with them in his own contact time?

No op you cannot demand he takes another person with him. You cannot demand he does practice swims with them beforehand.

you could say “sounds fabulous but I’d really appreciate it if you kept in touch while you’re away because you know I’ll be missing them. I hope you all have a wonderful time”.