DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

So what exactly AI is screening for in a graduate's CV? We're not talking about experienced professionals here, the uni is mostly important for your first and maybe second job, then your experience and results are talking.

Modest or what?

Those Oxbridge people party HARD. Don't be fooled.

I get where she's coming from, I went to an all girl's grammar in a very dull part of suburbia and the really hardworking/studious girls were also soooo boring to me. I wasn't a wild child or anything but they seemed motivated by nothing more than getting good grades and didn't even particularly seem to have any passions or interests.

If she's genuinely passionate about her subject, she'll have a better time at Oxbridge than most other places, and there are cool/fun kids there too. She might find that the locus of cool/fun refocuses around being passionate about the subject -- just look at the dark academia/sylvia plath/virgin suicides kind of lit-girl content on social media and you'll see what I mean. Oxbridge won't prevent her from becoming a degenerate but it will aestheticise it and she'll get a good education at the same time.

And honestly if she wants to have a career in English literature, like being a writer or working in publishing or even journalism, Oxbridge will set her up to do that better than anywhere else.

Both fabulous and internationally renowned universities, I don't think we need to devalue Oxbridge to recognise there are many great unis in the UK.

The same thing it'll be screening for in everyone else's, because even though AI screening is massively flawed it's a) cheaper than paying people b) enough people have drunk the KoolAid on AI being the be all and end all.

There's a lot of information online about this if you're genuinely interested rather than commenting to snark, much of it produced by uni careers offices themselves.

100%

ETA it even says so in the article you linked, @Ubertomusic

Caitlin thinks the use of artificial intelligence (AI) by companies as part of their filtering process could be a reason why she did not get very far in some applications.
She said initially her CV was not written in a way that could be read by some resume screening programmes where AI is used to read CVs.

Exactly! DD should look at what course she wants to study the most and what modules she likes. She needs to think about industry links and career prospects as well.

Perhaps we should say "...was about" all that exciting things. People are increasingly struggling to afford this and it will become a thing of the past fairly soon for all but the elites.

I find it strange that people extrapolate their experience of 10-20 years ago onto the future when even the present is clearly very different and changing fast. (I don't think going to Oxbridge is a solution btw 🙂 )

My daughter was offered a place at Oxford but refused to go! For some reason she applied to an all girls college, St Hilda’s I think, but after visiting for the interview decided that she did not want to be at a female college and thought that Oxford was too snobby! I think her school pushed her into applying as she was also predicted high A level grades.

I was happy for her to make her own decision and she eventually went to Manchester University, got a first and is now working at a high level in digital marketing. She thoroughly enjoyed life in Manchester balancing the parties with studying and has ended up working in the NW.

I did a 2 day open day and didn't like it. It's a lot of essays and small group seminars. I have never suffered because I went to Durham instead.

It’s sounds like we have very similar DD’s!

My DD doesn’t want to apply to Oxbridge for all the same reasons but someone in year 13 convinced her to join the Oxbridge prep group as the school provides significantly more support on the personal statement etc. so she is just playing the game right now with zero intention of actually going to an Oxbridge college.

Oxbridge is very different to the typical University experience and it's something you really have to be hungry for. If she's not that fussed she won't get in anyway. SD is Y11 and contemplating Oxbridge (with lower predicted GCSEs than your DD) but I'm not convinced it's the right environment for her. The students there party hard but they work hard too, extremely hard, and the pressure is intense.

@ArtichokeDip from your short description of her she would fit right in in oxbridge everyone I’ve ever met from there would describe themselves as hedonistic…

I'm vaguely interested, just to understand the current situation as pretty much every recent graduate I know of (not that many tbh) cannot find a decent job, and it's also all over the news, yet the MNetters are chanting "let her party, she'll be fine" 🤔

By the time my DC will be applying, it will be completely different anyway so no skin in the game atm.

Well, yeah. There is that. It's already no longer possible to fund being an undergraduate through student loan/part time work alone - the assumption is that your parents will cover the shortfall. Which is extremely limiting for those whose parents can't/won't - especially if they want to go into medicine, law etc.

I work with someone who is Gen Z and didn't go because they just couldn't afford it, despite growing up in London and so theoretically having the option of attending several very good unis whilst living at home. Hence my employer discussing whether stipulation of a degree as essential criteria is a class barrier. (I certainly couldn't afford to do any postgrad studies when I was 21, which ruled me out of certain jobs at the time.)

No, because their parents are clearly encouraging them to party! 😂

Why would you push her to apply for a uni she clearly doesn’t want to apply for! I’m guessing it’s for the kudos of saying my DD is at Oxford! I had a friend who went to Oxford and hated every moment of his time there!

I've changed my mind. Oxbridge is not for everyone. You should only apply if you feel the academic environment is right for you.

There are many other great unis for English. She'll have a great time here

yet the MNetters are chanting "let her party, she'll be fine"

More ridiculousness from you, @Ubertomusic

I don't think many parents have a clue what their children are up to at university. They are always saying there's not enough contact hours, help, lectures, when the whole sector is moaning that since Covid-19, engagement from students is poor, for many anyway. The good news is for those that do turn up, attend, interact in seminars, go to the events we put on, they get a better education as it's more personal; it's all there for the taking, but many parents think their children are doing all this, and sadly I would say at least half are not good attenders these days.

I don't mind if mine aren't amazing attenders, though, if they are getting very good grades, and doing the type of employability stuff that will help them in the now very competitive job market.

@MyNextDoorNeighbourVotesReform Oxford treat 8s and 9s as the same in assessing who to interview / accept so that will not have been the reason they didn't get in. That said those who do get in often have the highest grades.

You are setting her up for failure.

If she doesn't want to go there and is somehow persuaded, if things start to go south it will just snowball into "I don't want to be here and never wanted to be here". She could end up dropping out and it costing a fortune for no benefit.

Explain to her the benefits of Oxbridge, then let her choose where she wants to go.

I would add Nottingham is a pretty good party city.

I can only speak about my DS who is autistic and lived at home while studying. I know very well how little teaching they actually got, it wasn't worth the money at all, and his peers are now heavily in debt for this. And that was a top uni.

The key questions are:

Who is going to university?

Who gets to choose which one?

That simplifies the decision greatly.

My DS refused to apply too but that was mainly because of the interview and I think just the uncertainty and stress of getting a place. It's kind of a shame because I can't show off as much :) and he'd have got a full bursary covering course and accommodation.

The two people I know who went to Oxbridge had extreme mental health problems whilst there. Thing is, if they go to a slightly less good uni, they're probably going to still be one of the most academic kids there. It's hard when they're used to being top of the class and suddenly they're with the most academic kid in the world and are probably going to feel mediocre.