DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

You cannot redact a uni from a graduate's CV, there won't be much left then.

Last 10 years and next 10 years are completely different stories.

Frankly, I don't think Oxbridge will help much either, but at least they heard something about it in the US, China and the Gulf.

Teachers and parents pushed me to apply for Oxbridge, though I didn't want to go. When I went to my interview at Oxford (which I think was two days, with several different interviews), people were shaking with anxiety, swotting up in every spare moment, etc etc.

There was one girl who was really relaxed and fun and we got chatting and I thought oh OK maybe I could come here if there are people like this coming here. Turns out she actually didn't want to go either.

I have no doubt people have fun there, too - I have lots of friends who went - but it can be a very self-regarding place, too, and not necessarily very collegiate/friendly as everyone is "special". I went to UCL - while I was there it ranked higher than Oxford in one of the league tables. Obviously that can't truly be measured, but it just isn't the pinnacle of intelligence and achievement.

Part of the selection process for Oxbridge is self-selection: if you think it wouldn’t suit you it probably won’t.

I was similar to DD in being clubby and studious. But I lived in London so I could work during term time and club in the holidays.

I thought I wanted to go to Oxford because it was bigger and nearer my bit of London; but ended up at Cambridge as the course was exponentially better.
It was very small though and cold. I loved the course and the friends I made but to this day I still don’t love it as a place.

You cannot redact a uni from a graduate's CV, there won't be much left then.

You can. There are application systems that redact the uni name from the CV that reaches the recruiting manager. It continues to say “first in chemistry, project on surface science, studied modules in atmospheric and industrial chemistry” or whatever.

The May Ball isn't really akin to a psyllocylbin rave, an indie night, a techno party or a metal all-nighter, though - I get the impression college social life doesn't really cater for partying that's outwith the mainstream.

OP’s DD is not proposing to put down a “low entry score” uni as her first choice because she likes the tea shops in Northampton or something.

She is looking at unis with high entry requirements that she would put on her UCAS form in the other four spaces even if she put Oxbridge down. And, statistically, she would probably end up at one of them even if she did put Oxbridge down.

I'd gently encourage her not to rule it out just yet, but I wouldn't push hard.

I've been an Oxbridge tutor for over 20 years. I also have a daughter who recently graduated from Oxford.

Ahead of time my daughter was worried that everyone at Oxford would be ultra studious and there wouldn't be enough fun/partying/nights out etc. After going there she quickly admitted that had been an unfounded fear and that there were plenty of people at Oxford who wanted to have fun!

However, it is true that you are expected to work harder at Oxbridge than elsewhere, and there were times when she was envious of friends at other Universities who seemed to have a much more relaxed time. Overall, she loved her time at Oxford, the college system, the atmosphere generally, but there were pros and cons.

And I don't believe that is any longer the case that Oxbridge gives you a big step up in the job markets. There is a big emphasis in graduate recruitment on diversification.

It's a great place if you want to have lots of attention from academics (and I've been quite horrified by how little some of my children's peers seem to be getting for their money). I also suspect it offers unrivalled opportunities to be involved in all sorts of activities at all sorts of levels (both College and University). But it's a small city, it's academically intense, and night clubs are definitely poor!

Perfect. Then the flood of these articles is just a blatant lie and there is absolutely no problem for anyone from a red brick or wherever for that matter 🤷‍♀️

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clygj739dmvo

She sounds sensible! DH and I are slightly terrified of our daughter going to Oxbridge - it hasn’t worked out well emotionally for the three generations of family graduates before her!

I don’t understand how the article relates to your post to me?

Not all potential employers will redact university name, but some will, whereas 10 years or so ago, I don’t think any did.

ETA you edited your post to make it clearer. Don’t be so ridiculously extreme - my post clearly said redaction can be done and not that everyone did.

UCL is an internationally regarded university, so it wouldn't be a step down to go there!

Going into the crippling student debt for raves is a total insanity.

No, that's just how the job market is. It's horrendously shit, and most of that is because your CV will be screened by AI systems before a human even looks at it, so you have to learn how to structure it in a way that's effectively SEO rather than a useful description of your work history.

In my last job, we redacted ages, names and alma maters from CVs, the latter in particular because my industry skews more upper-middle class (we even discussed whether having a degree as a requirement at all is a class barrier in 2026 given how many are priced out). It's very very common now.

Again, the DD is choosing good unis, not just on raves.

Nuance, mate.

Going into crippling student debt is insanity anyway, but it is what it is.

A large part of being a student is getting the chance to leave your home town, try new things, and live independently as an adult for the first time (even if your student house is a hovel). If you want to check out and indulge in specific scenes that don't exist where you live now, of course that's going to be a big draw. Just as, as an adult, I prefer to live in a big city over a small town.

One thing I do think is a skill people haven't been thinking about is that Oxbridge do require you to present in small groups, in tutorials, and be highly articulate. That's increasingly a skill I find isn't well developed at our RG uni at all, especially with larger groups of students. Doing graduate job applications now is often about recording yourself presenting your answers to questions to an AI bot. Being a great presenter is going to be increasingly valued. Not sure it's worth switching unis for this, but it is something fairly unique about the tutorial system and it's only going to go up in value.

If she doesn’t like the company of the very studious kids at school she’s unlikely to want to be completely surrounded by them at Oxbridge, which she will be. I think her POV is a sensible one

It's also entirely possible she won't get into Manchester or Leeds either, both of which are extremely oversubscribed, especially for English. I went to uni in the Jurassic age but many people I knew who had their heart set on Leeds didn't get places and ended up elsewhere.

She says there will be too much study and not enough fun.

My DD is at Oxford studying English and there is a LOT of study but also an equal amount of fun. They work hard and they play hard. Her social life is phenomenal - I'm almost jealous! A PP said that she only went out to clubs in Oxford 3 or 4 times in 5 years; my DD goes several times a term. Maybe it depends what you are studying and who's in your cohort.

If it's not too late it would be worth your DD going to a study day at one of the colleges to see how she feels about it.

Whether or not you or I consider her reasons valid, she does and that is reason enough to respect her choice. If she is railroaded into going to a university - any university - that she doesn’t feel excited about, where there isn’t a spark of connection for her, then she’s starting off on the wrong foot and it may well all go tits up for her. I know several people this happened to (mostly, but not exclusively Oxford) and they all still regret not pushing back and following their hearts. University is the first real foray into freedom and independence, and it’s really important that you don’t rob her of that aspect of it.

What you can do is have respectful, neutral conversations with her about her reasons. Encourage her to explore and discuss the issues and make sure she really is confident in her choices. Then let her make them, and support her.

Agree on the value for money. DS went to a top RG uni in London and I was absolutely shocked by the lack of actual teaching and contact hours generally.

If I told you that most of the students don't turn up to their actual teaching and contact hours, would you be shocked?

My own child went to a very academic uni for UG (not Oxbridge) and then went to a more party and less academic RG uni for his masters (because cheaper and applied late) and just hated how less academic the culture was. No talks from world/industry leaders and nobel laureates.

The UG students weren't interested in going out into the world and changing things. He felt people were just looking forward to their next night out in the club.

I was thinking UCL and KCL for the DD

I would encourage her to keep her mind open to all universities. Chances are that she won't get into Oxbridge anyway so she only loses one of her 5 options. My child who had similar gcses and all a star predictions applied for Oxbridge for the experience rather than thinking that they would get in. They only had a small chance for their course (15%) so was not diappointed when they didn't get in. They wanted the interview expdrience more than anything.