Law at which? 2

[stubiff]

So, following on from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/5243884-law-at-which.

Going back a few months DS thought predictions would be AAA, hence talking about York, Exeter, etc.

We've just had parents evening and predictions are AStar, A, A, so that could bring others into it. You may say that's a good thing (I think it is for having a higher chance of getting an offer from the AAAs) but I'm not so sure it's good to now look at the AStar, A, A places.

So, not interested in London. Has said we would do the LNAT but knows nothing about it, yet.

That brings in Durham (LNAT), Bristol (LNAT), Warwick and Manchester, all at AStar, A, A. Leeds was that for 2025, but for 2026 it is now AAA (so it's in that pot now).

Looking at rough acceptance rates and what is used in the offer criteria (e.g. 40% LNAT, 40% A-levels, 20% GCSEs, and GCSE profile of majority 7+ (he doesn't have)), then I think DS would have <10% chance of an offer. If successful and went, then he would probably be at the lower end (ability-wise).

Therefore, is it actually worth looking at these places?

Well, you have 5 choices, so I’m sure you can spare one of the options for an aspirational choice.

Vuew it as an outside chance…and it’s a bonus if you get an offer.

And at the same time, the higher prediction boosts the chance of an offer at the AAA places.

What were his Gcses?

8, 777 and 6s, so not going to compete with most of the ones with higher A-level predictions.

Some students like to put 2-3 choices on UCAS and wait to see what their LNAT score is before putting their final options too. This is a possibility.

Yes, those GCSEs won’t make him standout, and the reality is that some v popular courses won’t give many offers to candidates who just meet the standard offer. But they often will give some. He will need a v strong LNAT and also an impressive PS. Has he got/is working in lots of specific reading/lustenibg/visits to boost his PS. Remember he must connect his super-curriculars to law/concepts he has heard about and not just list them. He needs to show what concepts led him to those super-curriculars, the ideas that struck him and the next syper-curricular they have/are leading him onto. Remember some 3x A star applicants don’t get offers as their PS isn’t strong enough for the v competitive places. And sometimes it’s just a numbers game. All anyone can do is try.

I’d say he shouldn’t give more than 1 or poss 2 at most of his 5 choices to the most competitive options. But if you don’t try, you don’t know.

And if he gets the offer and grades and place, I wouldn’t worry about him not being up to it. If he gets in, it’s fine.

I suppose it’s worth considering how realistic his PGs are. Has he performed at a level this year that makes the PG realistic? Some places are wildly aspirational in their predictions, which doesn’t always help students. Often if you get the offer, missing by 1 grade can mean you still get in (although no guarantees) but missing by more than 1 for those popular places means you’re vv likely not to be taken and some won’t be able to take even 1 missed grade. Law is competitive and I’d think that apart from contextual offers, at top places with A star AA standard offer, most holding offers have in excess of that it terms of predictions. But some won’t.

For LNAT most prep using arbitio subscription and book off Amazon. There’s some sample tests on website too. It’s multiple choice and 1 essay choice. Register as soon as slots open early August to get a close by centre and decent time slot with a view to sitting it Autumn yr13. The student room law forum good for LNAT info.
Maybe do some LNAT prep this summer and visit some LNAT uni open days in September to see if he wants to apply.
The results are released mid Feb after applying so most hedge bets and do mix. So eg 3 x none LNAT and 2 x LNAT.
I’m a solicitor with a Law degree and dc just finished yr1 law. We did 7 or 8 law open days for 2024 entry but not many on your list.
Personally I really rated Durham law course (and have recently recruited a recent law graduate from there who is excellent) The actual uni wasn’t to my dc’s taste for various reasons. They apply more weight to essay than some, not sure re gcse.
We didn’t do Bristol but it’s very well regarded. Offers late - don’t apply unless prepared to hang on until May.
You’ve discounted London presumably for cost reasons.
Have you looked at Glasgow common law (English) it’s LNAT and high ranked. Taught totally separately to Scot’s law - it’s English and International students on the course. Some people mistakenly think it only offers Scot’s law like Edinburgh. My dc just finished yr1 she’s loved it and I’ve been impressed with law teaching and extras - mooting, very active law society, employment talks etc.
None LNAT - Exeter, Warwick, Nottingham all well regarded. There’s a FOI for Warwick I can share if I haven’t in previous thread - very few places for home none contextual.
Complete uni guide 2026 league table is out, Times will update in September. Ignore Guardian for law it’s bonkers.

@WombatChocolate unfortunately LNAT results are mid February so kids must apply to Uni without knowing their multiple choice score and are never told a score for essay. Obviously he may be able to guess how he has fared based on practice tests and apply accordingly.

To answer some of the questions.

Not considering Scotland for various reasons.
Not much to go on PS. Has got 2 separate weeks of work experience in the summer. No other super-curricular.
PGs - is 50/50 on actually achieving them.
We talked through offer rates/criteria and all that.

So, leaving it up to DS, but said if I was doing it I would probably just look at Warwick (of those). Also, prob only put one of them down. May be slightly different if were looking at the AAAs as the insurance, but I don't think that will be the case here, will need 1/2 AAB as well.
Bristol and Durham need LNAT, he also slightly favours a campus, and Manc is 20s for general rank and Law rank. Leeds is similar-ish and has gone down to AAA now.

@Cakeandusername Grateful if you could share the Warwick FOI please.

50% of lawyers do not do law as a first degree although there are financial implications to that. My 3 children who went to Bristol all did NOT do law first. They are all solicitors, the twins having qualified last year. I did an LLB and loved it.

Warwick & Nottingham get lots of applications as they are well regarded but none LNAT. I know Nottingham were offering an alternative course to some applicants this year due to being inundated, saw several bemused posts on various forums.

If he searches Law super/supra curricular lots of suggestions like going to local courts, books to read, law in action podcast. All can be easily done over summer. Great he’s got work experience.

If he’s possibly AAB worth looking at AAA that are likely to take with a dropped grade. Has he got an EPQ - I think Birmingham may drop offer with an A grade EPQ. Exeter, Liverpool I’ve definitely seen have accepted below AAA in recent years.

If he is wanting a lower grade option as a back up I’d look at Lancaster and Leicester. Well regarded for law and campus. Realistically though they will be in clearing - watch clearing this year to get an idea for 2026. Last year Cardiff, Southampton, Lancaster, Leicester all in clearing for law (and lots of other lower ranked too) My dc didn’t have any offer below AAA but knew she’d get something in clearing if need be. Lancaster and Leicester were BBB in clearing 2024. Obviously no guarantees re clearing but gives an idea.

Re stuff to put on the PS, sitting in your local Mags / Crown Court is free and very interesting, he can talk about his impression of law “in action”, sentencing, advocacy of the lawyers etc based on his observance

@xenia DS wants to do a Law degree.

@Cakeandusername Thanks. What would be really useful in the FOI would be number of applications by each of the 3 types.
No EPQ, wanted to concentrate on grades, which I think has paid off.
Clearing - obv slight risk if not going for any AAB in 5. We'll see what the AAA list turns out to be.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/undergraduate_law_admissions_dat_204
For Warwick

So roughly a 22-25% offer rate (in the Law School as a whole).

This is Durham.
https://www.durham.ac.uk/media/durham-university/study/study---undergraduate/Applications-Receiving-offer-2023-24.pdf
If you have a dig you can usually find the data for each uni.
Some AAA will take AAB. Obviously no guarantees but some more likely eg Exeter is a very large intake. Liverpool do. Worth looking into and asking at open days. The very top ranked won’t budge if they miss a grade.
Don’t know if it helps but I struggled to get my head around AAA as her insurance. But I’m older and that was highest you could get. So really an AAA offer is BBB in ‘old money’. If your dc is predicted A*AA and you are happy that’s realistic then they could drop a grade and still meet AAA. If they drop 2 grades then uni may well still take them. If they had dropped more grades then there was decent stuff in clearing - I watched yr12 so was confident.

Re clearing (as an indication), of the ones being considered:

No (advertised as having no Clearing places) - Durham, Bristol, Exeter, Nottingham, Leeds.
Unknown - Warwick, Sheffield.
Yes (same grades) - Manchester, York, Birmingham, Lancaster, Newcastle, Surrey, Leicester, UEA, Swansea, Aston, Northumbria.
Yes (no grades advertised) - Kent, Reading.
Yes (lower) - Southampton BBB (from AAA), Liverpool ABB (from AAA), NTU 80 points (from 120), Sussex based on IB tariff being 28 (from 34).

So, short story, loads of options, as even the Yes with same grades will almost certainly have places come A-level results day.

Not sure if places have advertised lower A-level tariffs this early before?

I watched law clearing 23 and 24 and first time I’ve seen Southampton and Liverpool advertised this early.
Some of the ones in your Yes (same grades) will definitely go lower once they push their clearing - Lancaster and Leicester were BBB last year.
Queen’s Belfast has also already dropped to AAB for RUK.

Very useful statistics above - thanks.

@stubiff The universities that require LNAT (apart from Glasgow) and very much supplying the London law firms and chambers. The others such as Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester are big players in their local market area. So I would say a consideration is where does he want to work? Then tailor choices towards that. Agree with 1 or 2 aspirational choices but he would need 2 strong academic A levels out of 3 and a high LNAT score to counteract GCSE results. You know what he’s doing for A levels but when Law is competitive, every subject matters.

@TizerorFizz
I think it's probably the case for loads of industries. Big firms (as per the Chambers Student reports) are in London (or headquartered there) and they want the top people, hence from the top Unis.

There will (as per the stats) be Oxbridge/Durham, etc in the regions, and York/Sheffield/Manc/Leeds in London.

Take the point, though, that DC might gravitate to jobs in their Uni city/town, unless they have a real urge to move back home, or to somewhere.
There was a DC who is at Southampton and offered a TC there, but really wanted to work back in Manchester (but missed the application dates!).

No real preference on where to work, other than probably not London.

Think the aspirational ones are tricky as with his predictions he'll be bottom of the list (GCSEs are stellar either).
We did come up with % chances of getting an offer, based on all we know, and Warwick is 10% but that is probably 4 times higher than it should be!

If I was doing it I don't think I'd bother with the LNAT which just leaves Warwick as the one aspirational one (at AStar/A/A).
Leeds has gone down to AAA, and I don't think Manchester is all it used to be.

@stubiff Oxbridge is pretty much under represented in the regions though. It’s surprising but of course they are not producing many graduates. Manchester is big in Manchester and no doubt that applies to Sheffield, Leeds, Birmingham etc. Grads get to love their university city don’t they?

I don’t believe any London or regional chambers, or employer, sniffs at any degree, and some won’t be looking where they came from. This doesn’t produce any different recruitment trends though, from what I’ve seen. So it probably comes down to being pragmatic and choosing where he likes the look of and chooses 3 more where there’s reasonable chances and 1 where he really should get in. Employment won’t all be about where you went but getting a great cv together puts you in a better position when so many grads are similar. In London, unis like Reading do well and Nottingham. Haven’t looked at entry to those though and you did like York which is of course a solid choice.

Deciding what work and where has to be a fairly quick decision though because intern deadlines come up very fast. As do mini pupilage deadlines. It’s a bit of a whirlwind! Often being with a good strong body of like minded students galvanizes action!

Have you done some open days? They all have different strengths and good on paper is sometimes not a good fit. I’m sure your dc will have a preference eg campus or not, big city etc.

Only done Exeter and Sheffield so far.
DS preferred the former for city and Uni.
Slightly preferred a campus so far.

Nottingham is AAA so he’ll prob look there as well.
I like York but as we live near there he ideally wants to go further afield.

Then maybe Warwick for the aspirational.

Then it’s whether to put somewhere like Lancaster (AAB) as the fallback. Or put another AAA and then do clearing if not successful.
Suppose that will come down to which is preferred next.

Nottingham v popular for law and well regarded.
York is a unique problem based learning degree might be worth a look to see if appeals to him.
Lancaster should be in clearing.
Enjoy your open days.

Here's a wildcard - Loughborough.
We came across it recently just looking at the full list of Law courses for 2026.

It's a new course for (first) entry '26. AAB tariff.

We went on a webinar where they explained a few things.

Good - it's Loughborough so should gain a fair reputation hopefully. Small cohort of 125. New building to house school. DS would enjoy the sports facilities. Campus (which he slightly prefers).

Bad - no Law history/reputation. Heavy (advertised) Social Justice slant which may not suit some. Careers/Law Soc/Industry links may be lacking.

Other - Pinched/recruited Head from Kent, and a lot of their other staff, so at least they have worked as some sort of a team before. Would guess you'll get a lot at AAA+ (regardless of lower tariff, based on general reputation). Suggests offering Sports Law option (assume they'd be obliged to!).

Any thoughts?

@stubiff They are looking for a market position. Why we need more law undergrads is beyond me! They think their name will entice students in but I think there are issues and you have identified some. Employers have no idea about quality. They don’t have decades worth of law grads from there to know the product/quality. Also why social Justice? What’s that anyway? CPS? Deciding who gets Legal Aid? Working for legal charities? It’s aiming for the low paying end of the law market and presumably isn’t on the big hitters milk round. I’d swerve personally. Feels a bit niche and will it attract high flyers? Probably not. The grade is to entice applicants but others might be a better bet.

Just watched some of it back.
Equality, inequalities, human rights, garment shops, race, gender, abortion, Grenfell, PO scandal.
Very much how the law affects people.

Obv not wholly that but a slant that way, as they still have to cover all the (old style) compulsory stuff.

Some options they hope to offer - family law, labour law, medical law, company law, law of evidence, law of succession, sports law, environmental law, law and technologies.