Law at which? 2

[stubiff]

So, following on from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/5243884-law-at-which.

Going back a few months DS thought predictions would be AAA, hence talking about York, Exeter, etc.

We've just had parents evening and predictions are AStar, A, A, so that could bring others into it. You may say that's a good thing (I think it is for having a higher chance of getting an offer from the AAAs) but I'm not so sure it's good to now look at the AStar, A, A places.

So, not interested in London. Has said we would do the LNAT but knows nothing about it, yet.

That brings in Durham (LNAT), Bristol (LNAT), Warwick and Manchester, all at AStar, A, A. Leeds was that for 2025, but for 2026 it is now AAA (so it's in that pot now).

Looking at rough acceptance rates and what is used in the offer criteria (e.g. 40% LNAT, 40% A-levels, 20% GCSEs, and GCSE profile of majority 7+ (he doesn't have)), then I think DS would have <10% chance of an offer. If successful and went, then he would probably be at the lower end (ability-wise).

Therefore, is it actually worth looking at these places?

Not everyone wants to work
in London though.
Lots of people wrongly assume it’s not a qualifying law degree for England and Wales.

@Cakeandusername @TizerorFizz
Just to nip the Belfast conv in the bud, and thanks Cake for bringing it up a few months ago, but DS isn’t interested in it as an option.

Will come back to the other points later. Ta

@mondaytosunday There won’t be people with far lower grades doing law at Durham.

@Cakeandusername Re safe/clearing options. I did discuss this with DS a couple of weeks ago. His initial response was to put it in the 5, in that situation, just for the knowledge that it's in.
I think it will come down to where it ranks in his preferences after the open day (in a few weeks). If higher on the list (of 5) then as above, if lower on the list then maybe leave it off.
The main point, for me, is to have 5 that DC want to go to, rather than filling it with safety options/backups/last resorts.

@TizerorFizz
"Does that reflect Manchester is where employers are?" - obv there are more employers in Manchester. You're not comparing like with like. Manc is an AStar tariff and should be competing with Warwick and Durham (and until '26, Leeds). Lanc (and Leic) are AAB.
The main issue with Lancaster, Southampton and Cardiff is geographical.
As we know a number of people want to stay local and some have a X hour limit.
That rules out Southampton from those living in Birmingham even. And vice versa for Lancaster.
We're in Yorkshire and Lancaster is still a 2 and a half hour drive.

"You have to split them down into geographical areas" - who splits them down into areas. If Warwick, Nottingham and Loughborough are the three best Unis for a DC then you're not going to throw in Manchester just because it's (perceived to be) the best in the NW.

Manc/Birm - bit of a moot point for DS anyway. Manc, as said, is AStar and he prefers the look of Warwick as the one aspirational. Don't forget he hasn't got the luxury of putting 5 AStar ones down. Also prefers a campus.
Birmingham may come into it.

"good in terms of grad employment." - no meaningful data to know this. Ucas data is just 'a job' or 'study' afterwards.
The report you/we quote, itself, suggests that the %'s are mainly to do with the numbers at each Uni, not whether they have a better chance by going there.
Exeter has a year cohort of 600, 600! It's obv a good uni, but a lot of it (between AStar and AAA tariffs, anyway) is a numbers game.

"The research, such as if is, just tells you where the most often successful packages come from!" - are you suggesting that those Unis (by doing something different, not just because they are those Unis) make DC a better package.

"University isn’t the sole determining factor either." - yes, agree, think it's becoming less and less this, now.
Hence I have no issue with DC choosing Lancaster (or similar) over Manchester/Birmingham.

Manchester - seems like I'm bashing it, but I don't think it's all it used to be. In the report in the last 3 years is on a steep decline. In CUG/rankings it's now in the 20's, which matches the above.
Leeds is similar-ish and has gone down to AAA for '26.

And for confirmation, DS is looking at Warwick, Exeter, Sheffield and A N Other for the 'main' choices - a reasonable list I think!

@stubiffOk so not Manchester but Manchester still supplies many lawyers in the NW. League table position is immaterial because few Oxbridge grads would apply there, for example. This is why geography is part of the study and job profile. I do see that 5 aspirational doesn’t work but where he wants to work afterwards matters.

Loughborough, is an unknown quantity really. It’s a punt. Many people would throw in Manchester (if they could get in) because of direct links to NW law jobs. Ditto Birmingham and Bristol. Salaries are pretty good so there’s a reason for being there. I’m unsure how Exeter features in distance terms.

The other thing is critical mass of aspiring students. Getting along with the right people so deadlines are not missed and ducks are lined up.

The expansion of law degrees is working against students. Over 27,000 in 2025. Then add in some very bright conversion students and having a strategy to get work matters more than ever and it’s not just about league tables. I’d have a look at some of the useful career insights published on Legal Cheek.

I wouldn’t limit by distance but look at ease of travel. My dc is 4 hours away by road but quicker by train - direct and frequent service and reasonable cost.
Once they do some open days they soon know what is for them big city, campus etc.
If you can I’d encourage a visit to Leicester and Lancaster open days so you are prepared in case of clearing.

Exeter is miles from us! If that's what you mean.
DS has no problem travelling (but not London), and has no real preference for job location (again aside from not London).

"Getting along with the right people so deadlines are not missed and ducks are lined up." - are you talking study or job applications?

"Salaries are pretty good so there’s a reason for being there." - you can get a job in Bristol going from Exeter, you can get a job in Birmingham from Leicester/Warwick/Notts, you can get a job in Manchester from Lancaster/Liverpool/Leeds. You don't need to have gone to the biggest Uni in that city to give you the edge.
The firm that DS is doing work experience with, that he could aspire to, doesn't even take which Uni into account.

Fine, salaries may be lower in the smaller cities/towns, as expected. Friends DD went to Warwick for Law, did post grad at home-based (low-ranked) Uni and now has TC at a home-based regional firm. Sometimes it's not all about working for Top 50 firms.

Going to Lancaster Open day in a few weeks - after all this he'll probably hate it!

@stubiff I think you mentioned distance from home as being a criteria and then popped in Exeter. So I was confused. I think ease of transport is more important if that trumps work opportunities - not that they are solely down to degree and university.

Sorry, mentioned that some DC have that criteria, or a local criteria, as a reason for Lancaster, Cardiff and Southampton being in clearing.

DS has no issue travelling.

I’d avoid Bristol. A lot of it seemed to be teach yourself. Very little interaction with others or the teaching staff. I know most unis aren’t like Oxbridge in the sense that a student can really realise their full potential through one to one and small group discussions to develop their thinking and challenge their output but … there was so little facetime with the teaching staff. Very different from my experiences at another ( relatively mediocre!) Russell Group uni back in the day.

And as for graduation - pathetic. Yes, ok ceremony in the Wills building but very sad and small event otherwise compared to my other children’s graduations and my own. No reception with all staff present suited and booted and making an effort to speak to graduates and their families. Very much - we’ve had your fees, now bugger off !! A very sad small post ceremony drink in a little pub with one lecturer there didn’t really do it for us.

I’ll be honest and share my dd wasn’t a fan - was ready to leave after 10 mins (I made her stay for law sample lecture which wasn’t great) but most of her objections were based on location/campus/not far enough away.
But I know lots love law there and go on to succeed.
I was still glad we went as it confirmed she was wanting big city and indeed is thriving at a big city university.

sorry if it seems I’m hijacking this thread but I was wondering as you all seem so knowledgeable if any of you have a sense of what Cardiff’s current clearing offer might be. It was showing as BBB on results day I’m sure but now they’re not presenting any grades. DD interested for next year but I can imagine she’s a BBB or BBC student. Based on the fact that Cardiff still has the LLB in clearing and the historical data on UCAS, we’re thinking potentially she has a shot. Any thoughts appreciated!

My DS had Cardiff as his firm but changed to Reading as he feels it better positioned to where he would want to work also the Law facility is well-regarded even if it isn't ranked as high. I think it is a good choice and student satisfaction is high.

Ds's friends have been accepted with BBB but originally needed AAB.

Sadly we are 20 mins drive from Reading Uni (and 45 mins from Surrey) - she won’t entertain the idea of either! Reading is a great uni, I hope your DS is very happy there

So useful to know, thank you

@EvelynBeatrice Thanks for that, disappointing when something is not quite as expected. Bristol is out anyway as DS wants to look at Warwick (doesn't need LNAT, where former does) for the aspirational choice.

@EvelynBeatrice How odd. Of course Bristol grads are very employable - probably because they have great research skills. No universities have wall to wall teaching now. Has your dc got a job?

I’m coming back with further info about Bristol. They explicitly say at least 8 hours contact time but also publish the attached saying 35-40 hours a week are needed due to the requirements of the course where extensive reading is needed.

Just to be clear, the Law School hold a ceremony in the Old Grammar School. Here’s the July 9 info for 2025. No idea why the poster didn’t go but dc should have applied for places.

Hope that clears up misunderstandings.

Three of my solicitor children went to Bristol and loved it (but as the poster says Bristol is not on the list.

The list is Warwick ( aspirational choice), Exeter, Sheffield and A N Other. Sounds like a good list. I would put the hardest to get in for which there is a chance first and go down from there.

Thanks Xenia.

I know people have commented on some of these in the past but the A N Other would be from (all same tariff):
Nottingham
York (prob too close to home but working on that)
Birmingham
Leeds (dropped to AAA for '26)
Cardiff
Southampton

To finish off the set - here are the Warwick offer rates (for '24).
Note, they could not remove contextual offers (1 or 2 grades, normally, below the std AStar,A,A), so some grade profiles may contain both.

3 AStar 58.9%
2 AStar A 30.2%
2 AStar B <5 out of 12
AStar AA 14.9%
AStar AB 7.9%
AAA 7.4%
AAB 4.6%

They are offer rates for each grade so shouldn't add up to 100!

For comparison, Bristol:
3 AStar 69.3%
2 AStar A 41.2%
AStar AA 19.6%
AAA 0%
AAB <5 out of 25

For comparison, Durham
3 AStar 36.1%
2 AStar A 29.8%
AStar AA 20.5%
AAA 12.5%

Thank you for sharing @stubiff