Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

Yup.

Has she got hold of the university complaint process?

So who else are you going to ask - the PT???!!

Well at least she knows now not to ask him for a reference for anything else.

I'm sorry your world is only one of procedures... that indicates maybe that whatever you do doesn't require a lot of independent thinking?

No that wasn't the point. The PT had "understood" (guessed) that the summer school was for PGs but it isn't, it's for UGs and PGs and recently graduated (up to 5 years) in a specific field. My daughter is extremely well qualified for it: to give an example, someone who was a fellow student at the summer school she did in 2024 (and I saw both her work and his at the final presentation) was a student on the summer school my DD wants to go to in 2025 in 2022. She's already done lots of extra curricular stuff in this field.

Exactly. He gave his opinion. The mother didn't like it. Then people say he must be sexist, an "incompetent twat", etc. Maybe he was right.

What is the mother doing getting involved in such granular detail in a summer application for her daughter who is an adult?

Really ! 🥴

It's both. It's wrong, as she's neither too young nor underqualified, and it's negative because it says she's both those things when she isn't (if we believe the OP and why the hell wouldn't we?)

You don't have a clue what my world is. Plenty of independent thinking though. I don't tend to be rude when I am doing it though.

And BTW for all your critical thinking, your reading skills may need attention as I did not respond to your post at all previously but @VanCleefArpels.

Patronise someone else.

There should be a second reference route as above.

Plus PP said she may well be able to request a different PT - in fact before she job hunts that may well be the best thing to do anyway.

The whole needs more experience thing if often used against women - DH last Uni female colleague had taken on task with a role they were slow to recruit for about 18 months told her she needed more experience- she had years in the field - then employed a man with literally no experience and poor qualifications - seemed shocked when she left.

No-one saying she not followed the correct procedures just they haven't worked for her - so she needs to find a different route - there may be more informal flexibility - or secondary route to a better or better fit reference.

Because that's what mothers do!

I really do hope you are not in FE/HE.

Do you have a child yourself? Do you ignore their problems if so?!!

No, he was wrong. He said she was too young for the summer school when, as the OP has stated more than once, she isn't. He didn't do his job properly and that's that.

The fact that academics are defending his incompetence doesn't posit academia in a positive light tbh.

As I have explained several times, my DD followed her institution's procedures for requesting a reference to the letter. It is her PT who didn't.

You are being passive aggressive, and picking out a minor detail to criticise. That's typical petty bullying. You just want to insult, so I'm giving it right back at you.

I am patronising because you are doing it to me.

I agree, I'm finding this thread very enlightening. Clearly academics hate writing references, dash them off and don't expect them to be reliable! Maybe DD and I are overthinking this and the reference (which is one of only 7 documents in the application) is unimportant.

I'd say the life lesson here is to choose people you ask for references very, very carefully, paying attention to all prior contact with them.

Rejection can have wider consequences than hurt feelings, and determination is little use to you when the person you chose to help get a foot in a certain door torpedoes you instead.

Absolutely this!

There are some alleged academics tripping over themselves to justify this man's incompetence, and some that clearly shouldn't be let near a student!

Perhaps he was thinking in terms of maturity rather than actual age as that’s how I would look at it.

Age tick
Maturity 🤷‍♀️

So, parents are always less biased than the personal tutor in an academic matter? It is really important to defend the right of an academic to offer their honest opinion in a letter of recommendation. The daughter may have been unqualified to attend, we don't know.

When you have a choice. DD didn't and she followed her institution's guidelines to the letter.