Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

No professional will write a reference based on what the applicant has told them about stuff that happened before they even knew them- they can only speak to their direct contact with the applicant. The other extra curricular stuff will presumably speak for itself. If he expressed his honestly held belief based on his interactions with your daughter then I’m not sure what it is you think he should have done?

Also worth seeing if you can do as the poster has suggested or perhaps replace his with someone that knows her better.

I'm a personal tutor in HE. At this time of year I'm getting 20-30 reference request a week. Most are demanding and quite rude emails from students I've only ever seen as a face in a crowd. Your dd should have taken the time to meet with him or drafted a letter he could amend.

We think he should have read the information on the summer school (a page) more attentively where he would have found ample evidence that my DD was of the right age and stage of education for the summer school.

As I have said in earlier posts, the PT is very hard to pin down to meetings. Her email was not rude in any shape or form.

Student drafting their own references in quite against her university's policies so that wouldn't have been a solution

Why on earth would they submit a negative/potentially damaging reference without speaking to your DD first?

Surely if their genuine opinion was that your daughter wasn't ready/capable, they should have declined to act as a referee? Or at the very least informed her of how it would read and ask if she still wanted to go ahead. Nobody asks for a ref expecting it to be bad!

Don't agree at all with you

That is tough because she sounds like a motivated student eager to learn.

I would say that it is down to the Summer School acceptance board to decide whether she is too young or underqualified. They will see her age and only they can decide if she is too young.

It's a bit arrogant of the PT to presume what the Summer School are looking for, and if I was the decision-maker there, I would take that opinion with a pinch of salt. More interesting would be that he has said she is hardworking and worth a chance. If her skills and experience matched the programme, that would be a positive recommendation.

It is odd that he has submitted the reference before he has been formally asked by the insitution. Personally, I would leave it and use it as a heads' up not to ask him as a referee in future. Hopefully her dissertation supervisor will not be the same person and she can use them.

When I ask someone for a reference or recommendation, I usually draft out what I want them to say. They then amend / put it in their own words or just sign it.

I think he should have been clear with her from the off he wasn't going to write a glowing recommendation (although to be fair, his reference doesn't sound 'awful' or 'devastating') but if you want someone to be a referee, pick the right person and make it as easy / quick for them as possible.

The tutor may also not want to create problems for himself down the line with this institution by writing references that don't hold up. He may have a professional relationship with them he wants to protect.

Thank you! My DD was very confident that the reference would be completely positive based on her academic record and student engagement in related activities.

It makes it worse he doesn't know her well enough to make an informed reference. He should have made that clear and left it open for discussion with your daughter. She would then have had the opportunity to back up her argument that she is qualified etc. I would lose complete faith in this guy and go over his head!

Is the tutor jealous of her? Has she rejected his advances at some point?

I work in HE and get requests for references from students. I always say I will only write them when I have seen the full application and CV, so the student sends me their application and the scheme details at a pre-agreed time before the deadline for references, and then I have a look at the whole thing, write and submit the reference. That way I can tailor it to the scheme, and I don't waste time by having to think about it more than once.

I definitely wouldn't just dash off and send a reference before the application was even completed - that's a total waste of my time as the student might not even apply. And I wouldn't agree to do it at all if I didn't think I could endorse the student's application. Depending on the institution, but a lot of places won't send a reference request until after the application is received, and they'll then send me a link to a secure portal to upload the reference. So it may be that the tutor's reference won't even be taken into account - who has time to file correspondence about applications they haven't even received yet? If I were your DD I would (a) contact the scheme to clarify that she doesn't want to use him as a referee, and (b) find someone else.

Oh dear. It sounds like he made some mistaken assumptions but I think perhaps your DD should have spelled things out to him a bit more rather than expecting him to read the website.

Anyway it’s done now. If he’s already submitted his reference I’m not sure what you can do about that. I very much doubt he is going to send something that says whoops I was wrong.

Your DD’s best bet is a) to find another more supportive referree, or two. And b) to draft something that explains her PT made some mistaken assumptions about the level required and her experience, her fault for not explaining to him, but please can they read his reference in that context.

I'm not sure if this is correct. I believe referees must include facts not such things as their personal opnions that the person is too young and under qualified?

Op, as you say she needs to email him and ask to resubmit an accurate account of her skills.

It could be that it makes no difference to her application and they ignore it, on the basis that they can see her qualifications and her age is irrelevant.

If not, she should make a SAR to get the reference and see what he's actually written and if it's exactly what he said.

Then, there's a few things to raise with the University. First, he's said she's underqualified without knowing her qualifications. Second, that he's specifically saying that her age makes her unsuitable for something, which is age discrimination.

Precisely - my DD forwarded the information about the summer school to her PT by email so he could read it and she was fully expecting him to ask her for the CV and PS she was using (hence her doing them in very good time over Christmas).

I think your expectation is unreasonable - given the number of students each tutor is responsible for do you really think they’ve got time to do this (see PP academics who say No). You seem unable to appreciate that someone may have an honestly held belief about your DD that doesn’t suit you

References should be based in factual evidence not personal opinion.

I agree. Why would he even write that? It seems very petty and counter-productive to do that to a young person.

I don't think your daughter has done anything wrong here.

I do think she should find another referee - the most senior person who knows her work and has a reasonable disposition.

I would not recommend drafting your own letter of reference as an undergraduate unless asked to do so. That could come across as very arrogant. It was considerate of your daughter to give emailed information in advance rather than dump this on him in a meeting. Unless he's right about the programme, he's been hasty and flaky here, and she couldn't have predicted that.

If she gets a second reference, she can send it in and ask that it be added or substituted.

His is at least not negative. As a supplementary reference it won't harm her case. Hope she has good luck now.

I'm also a tutor who gets requests from students for references. At the start of the year I make it clear that if they want me to say positive things about them they will have to meet their deadlines and contribute to class discussions. If they would like me to mention things they have done that I would not otherwise be aware, of I am very happy to be made aware of them, and I may be able to refer to them appropriately. Otherwise I will just stick to whatever facts I know.
So it really is for the students to take the lead on what they want their references to say.

The issue as I see it is that the tutor is weighed in in areas he shouldn't have.

If a tutor is giving a reference, it should state how the student is progressing academically and their attitude to work.

If he doesn't know what qualifications she has (and why would he?) he shouldn't be stating she's "underqualified", and her age has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It would be like if I changed careers and decided to go and work with horses, and the reference from my employer said, "She knows nothing at all about horses and she's too old." The reference would be expected to be about what they've seen of me as an employee, not about my life and skills outside work or my personal characteristics.

Well it's a bit of a hard lesson for your DD @AnonymousStudentParent but if she wanted him to read her CV she really should have attached it to the original request for a reference.

He doesn't sound that slapdash if he acted upon her request for a reference immediately.

Sounds like she should hurry up and submit it now if she's spent time on it and if its a strong application she will stand a very good chance anyway.

Going back to the tutor and asking them to resubmit the reference is not a good idea
a) could antagonise tutor
b) the summer school could conceivably end up with 2 alternate references about the same applicant from the same referee which will look fishy!

This was me, too.