Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

Twat. I've written a fair number of references in my time and the general rule is that, unless the person is genuinely awful and it would be unprofessional to do so, you write a positive but accurate and realistic portrayal based on the hard facts that you have, keeping suppositions and conjectures about how they might perform in a role to a minimum beyond giving your experiences of them which might recommend them.

Didn’t quote who I replying too

Does she have to pay for the summer school? I wonder, if she pays quite a lot to do it, if they'll care about the reference or will be able to see that it is superficial. My son looked at one which would have cost 2000 euros a couple of years ago, I suspect they just wanted bums on seats.

And in any event, I think they'll be able to see from her own evidence that she is suitable (or they may decide she isn't but they will have plenty to go on, from what you say).

I don't think personal tutors should do this sort of thing. By all means say if someone is useless because they eg never do any work but otherwise why would you try to sabotage? Young people have it difficult enough these days!

First of all, you don't know the PT is sexist. That's a bit of an assumption. Second of all, he didn't give the student a hostile reference. Third, there are no cookies for personal references. (Wish there were).

DD knows one well (DC of a family friend) and she definitely thinks that being a PhD TA is slavery of the highest order. To the extent that she gives positive feedback however awful the TA! I'm not sure that she would find it morally acceptable to enlist a TA for free advice.

As I said upthread, there's a scholarship scheme - though some travel and food costs remain.

Could she ask the sixth form tutor of the subject/s most related to her current degree to write it? They would know her better. She could explain in the application she wanted someone who had spent more hours with her, and that PTs have a lot on their plate.

There is a breed of person on MN (and elsewhere) who thinks all young people need to learn resilience, are snowflakes and think the world owes them everything. Off to National Service with them!

Whereas, those of us in the real world know they've been shafted by Brexit and covid, and jobs and opportunities are really difficult to come by.

I really don't think a PhD TA would resent a conversation with an interested student.

But failing that - is there a course leader / tutor / director?

There must be a convention for second references - most PG courses need two!

No it has to be an academic from her current institution. She actually would have preferred to ask someone from her last summer school (related to the new summer school) but that wasn't allowed.

That sounds really cruel, why do that to her? He could have just declined to give the reference. Sounds like a very bitter person.

It's not a PG course, it's a summer school.

If it is s very competitive summer school in a prestigious setting, she should have made a face to face meeting happen, even if the PT is hard to get hold of. Stop making excuses for your daughter. I feel for her but it is a lesson learned for the future.

But she could include it as an extra reference. Assuming they can write it in English as you said she did her education in another language (certified translations are difficult and expensive to obtain). Unless you are in Wales, that is!

The have been shafted but other young people will have managed the reference process with equally difficult PTs. The summer school wont care what the reason is for the reference not being strong enough.

No, she followed her institutional procedures to the letter. There are no circumstances in which my DD should have done something differently. She did everything in AMPLE time following all guidelines. Admittedly the Christmas holidays fell in the middle but that is not her fault and applications only opened just before the Christmas holidays.

Agree with this.
It sounds like her PT simply doesn’t agree with you or your DD that she is suited to this summer school.
He can only say what he believes

Personally I’d be more concerned why he has this lack of confidence in your DDs abilities.
This is a person who could be in the best place to give references down the line for job applications.
Id ask DD what’s going on at Uni

I think she needs to ask someone who knows her and is happy to support her. It's the PT's reputation and he's got to be honest. He should have said to your DD that he didn't have a lot to recommend her and she could have asked someone else. His job is to support her in her studies. A reference is asking a lot if he doesn't know her.

Why do you think he should be reading up on her internship and know all about her background?

The lesson for your DD is to speak to him. If she was uncertain she'd be able to get his recommendation on time then she could have lined up someone else.

I'm wondering how your DD phrased the email request? "Please can I have a reference?" Or "would you be able to supply a reference that I'm appropriately qualified on the grounds of x y and z"?. Make it easy for the guy.

Any chance she could ask for another reference? If it were my daughter, I’d tell her to find the name of the person in charge of the summer school, write them letter (hand written) and include two other references. If you don’t ask, you don’t get.

Or it could be a disorganised twat who didn't bother to find out what he needed to write!

I understand that. What I mean is, PTs can't be the only people writing references for students in her dept. If the informal route of asking TAs about it won't work for her, she needs to ask head of dept / course tutor / student advice service where to go next

I think a conversation with TAs could be preferable, and I would advise your daughter if you don't mind some extra advice not to let her impression of one person's experiences govern her interactions with TAs. Their situations vary. If their teaching programme is properly designed to sit with and support their studies, they have a reasonably good deal. I have known very few who would not welcome sensible interaction with undergraduates, and if they can't help, they are certainly able to say so.

I think he should have followed his institution's guidelines on references to the letter as my DD did.

It’s expected/required that tutors write references for their students. It’s not some benevolent act on his part - it’s literally his job.

God you're all heart!!!!

So maybe there now needs to be a rubric for letters when PTs have to write letters and there are loads of students. We have them for marks, Turnitin comments, etc. That way no one is offended or upset if they don't get the result they want.