Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

Yes I agree. This is the normal process at universities.
I wouldn’t expect the PT to have intimate knowledge of her as a person but it’s absolutely out of line to write an unjustified bad reference (especially when he doesn’t know her well). He is in the wrong here.

That's helpful. Not.

I think she should email the tutor pointing out all the bits that are wrong and ask for the reference to be amended.

Ok. So most of them were really good, and you got a bad apple. I cannot think of any other sector that does not have some bad apples. It isn't unique to academics. A beginning lecturer at a post-92 makes about 35K. It doesn't seem to me that academics are very valued and right now they are facing horrific pressures. I was a union rep and was in nearly a dozen redundancy meetings during my last couple months on the job. It is really hard out there.

I'm sure that's true of undergraduates but this was for a Masters where people are mainly self-funding. Seems extra rude when it works out at about £200 a seminar!

Im sure there are loads of really annoying students. But I promise you my DD isn't one: her attendance is always perfect and she meets every deadline in ample time!

Well, did it get the result you wanted? No. Would it have been better to have a letter of reference from someone who knows and likes you. Yes. Does always following the procedure lead to the best results. Not always.

That's the lesson.

To quote you, OP:

He has form - she says that he forgets everything about her between meetings.

Speaking as an ex-lecturer, it does sound like she was just a face in the crowd and he couldn't be bothered to actually assess her suitability on the basis of the materials she sent. I had loads of colleagues, mostly males, who would focus on a handful of 'promising young men' in the student crowd and treat everyone else (especially females) as an also-ran.

I hope I'm crying sexism too quickly, but it sounds drearily familiar. I wouldn't say this to your daughter, though, as it may just make her bitter. Better focus on the PT having been short of time and careless.

PPs are right though, often online reference systems don't let you edit a reference. In which case this bloke would have to cold-email the organisation to eat his words. Sounds like a long shot.

Main thing, tell your daughter it's little to do with her, more with a dysfunctional higher ed system.

This is precisely why I never thought it was a good idea for universities to be considered businesses or purely vocational in nature.

The thing is it is not a particularly awful reference. He gave his opinion that he things that she is too you and inexperienced but that she is hardworking and worth taking a chance on.

The thing is the Summer School will have all the information in front of them and not just the reference. They may disagree that she is too young or inexperienced. I would not lose heart yet.

I heartily concur with that.

Unfortunately I'm afraid there may be sexism at play here though I haven't said as much to my DD.

There is a ban on that in my institution because it creates unbearable workload issues on the staff who are friendly and accessible and actually engage with their students. They get inundated with reference requests while the aloof ones get away with not doing anything. So they have cracked down on it and only the PT should be writing a reference.

Thank you for this point.

Either she tries to get around this road block - see if in practise there's more flexibility about approaching someone who she has a closer relationship with - there often is but not always.

Or she can do a formal compliant about him if he isn't helpful after she talks again to him trying to clarify situation- see if she can get a new one for future.

Those are the options really. She could still get a place with lacklustre reference if she got a lot of other things going for her.

Do they have any guidance for the PT when they don't know the student very well?

Not really - I guess they can email one of their seminar tutors to check if they want to.
I churn these things out though and will use complimentary wording about being diligent and hard working (based on grades) even if I don’t know them that well. It’s never been a problem for me. I will also draw on stuff from their CV which I will ask for before writing the reference. We have huge cohorts at my place - it’s impossible to really get to know any student.

What's a "good lesson" - her PT being an incompetent arse?!

I don't know why so many posters are hellbent on supporting the PT!!!

Sure, she can do a complaint. I suppose that the personal tutors who don't know their students very well can write a generic reference that is bland and not offensive according to a template.

I assess applications for grants/fellowships. An average reference doesn't always sink the application. Assessors can tell if the PT doesn't know the student very well...we'd rather have informed references. However, if the institution is worried about complaints and workload, then we'll tend to get letters that don't say a deal. I'm not sure that is a win, but your mileage may vary.

My DD's PT doesn't know her particularly well because he forgets everything about her, not for any other reason. I'm not sure anyone else currently teaching her knows her particularly much better apart from the PhD TAs who aren't suitable as referees.

She may be better off requesting a new personal tutor anyway. In any place I've worked, this hasn't needed a complaint.

If he's not teaching her, there's no important relationship to preserve - I'd try to jump ship to someone else.

It is a good lesson in learning how to deal with obstacles, no?

PhD TAs would have great advice. They'll be facing the same problem. Their supervisors may be willing to sign off too.

Yup, that's one way to deal with it.

Those obstacles being sexist males who do a half-arsed job and think they deserve cookies for it? I suppose, she'll encounter many more of them in the workplace.

That's right.