Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

For answering your questions, for free? Huh, Ok.

Nice try.

It is very true. If you can't provide evidence, then you simply don't have a good argument. If all you have is armchair diagnoses, assertions that university is not rocket science (in a strict sense, this is wrong because they make rockets), or a few anecdotes, the argument is not a strong one.

My first husband was Jewish, and this is so offensive I don't even know where to start. A work of cultural anthropology, a best seller bought an enjoyed by British people, is racist? There were no accusations of racism concerning Watching the English. None.

here's the blurb from Daunt books if you do not believe me. There is even updated survey data.

https://dauntbooks.co.uk/shop/books/watching-the-english/

Now with new survey data to add weight to her original fieldwork findings, and more extensive field-research and experiments to back up earlier observations, Kate Fox has deciphered yet more enigmatic behaviour codes, adding new rules, new subcultures, new chapters and over 100 updates.
If you’re English, this new edition of Kate Fox’s acclaimed international bestseller will make you stand back and re-examine everything you take for granted – and if you aren’t English you’ll finally understand all our peculiar little ways.
Watching the English has sold more than half a million copies and has been translated into many languages.
Not only a worldwide bestseller, but also a set text for university anthropology courses, Watching the English has been widely praised as a revealing and entertaining dissection of the English national character.

Hmm upthread you said
I'm not patronising anyone and it is sad that academics take all this so very personally. I and other parent posters have been pretty consistent in not finger pointing at individuals and discussing system failures whereas academics have indulged in personal attacks and got highly emotional. This is disappointing.

So how can we accept what you say is consistent?

@BeAzureAnt And.. you’re still trying..

Yup, still here.

Please define 'subjective'. Evidence your argument. If you don't want to provide evidence or define subjectivity, then you don't have an argument.

I will totally respond if someone has an unsubstantiated argument or wants to insult me, and I'll report the latter. So you can keep going, and I'll keep responding. It is no problem whatsoever.

Eheu fugaces labuntur anni.

Yeah, good old Horace. Yes, we are mortal creatures, but when we are here, it is important to challenge unsubstantiated arguments. the problem is that silence=consent.

People are allowed to change their opinion based on the evidence presented to them... In your case, of course, we have all updated our opinions of you since this thread began.

So, have you read Mein Kampf? Have you read Watching the English? I also might offer that the OP has been fairly condescending to me most of the way through the thread. I was told I had little reading comprehension, and enumeration of 30 years of experience was met by a So What? So it has been pretty consistently patronising, even if she claims she never did that, and then, well, she did it again.

That's whatabout whataboutery and I'm not about to play that game. Nice try though.

Tell me how it is whataboutery. I asked...have you read these books...you seem to think they are equivalent in some way. I noted several instances of where the OP displayed a patronising attitude towards me, then said she had not made any personal attacks, and then she did it again. That does not suggest consistency.

You were the one who started the whole throwing cultural mud at people, saying the British are known for being passive aggressive.

So I suggested that you shouldn't rely on just one book, no matter how well researched to inform your entire opinion of the British people.

Then you hang out on British forums winding British people up.

Why are you still here? If you don't like British people?

Watching the English is a terrible book that repeatedly confuses cause and effect of marketing strategies.

My second and current husband is British, and he found the book hilarious. And he says the passive aggressive bit is totally true. That doesn't mean I don't like British people, but no, I don't really like that part of them. And if it is used against me, I will call it out every time.

Oh, I'm a dual American British citizen. I suppose I have as much right here to be as anyone else.

Huh. Ok. I'm not sure what you mean here...do you mean it isn't good at analysing causality in marketing? Or do you mean it confuses cause and effect? Or that it was written that way to appeal to the market?

How about Shaftesbury and the Culture of Politeness? What did you think of that book?

@BeAzureAnt If “silence = consent” then the OP is right to complain. You might be advised to listen.

No one said she didn't have the right to complain to the university. Several suggestions have been made by academics on this thread how to do that, including me.

If someone says something untrue or uninformed, and I say nothing, then that means I agree with it.

I hear you. She has taken a pop at me every single time I post. It's deeply unpleasant.

How the "insight" is delivered matters. Please don't write parents off as stupid!

Plus very many of us have experience from other backgrounds which can also inform the situation. This question was over the matter of a reference, and academics are far from the only people to write those!

Me too. And pretty much everyone else. MN have done nothing. It seems unfair to have dominated a thread so strongly. The majority of the posts on here are BeAzure telling yet another person they’re wrong. Or to back up their opinions with qualifications. What a joke. People with qualifications get things wrong too. Just look at recent and current prime ministers. Even the person with most responsible job in the country gets it wrong. I have no further time for this thread. Answering to BeAzure is like oxygen. The best we can do is starve her of further words to which she can promptly tell us off again. No doubt she’ll leap back in now to tell me to read another book and how very wrong I am.

@wigsonthegreenandhatsforthelifting

You're right. I don't like to let myself be pushed off a thread but maybe if she just keeps arguing with herself for another 3 pages, it will all be over!

Exactly right. It’s so important so she threw him an email? He must get hundreds everyday…..you”re angry because he didn’t drop everything and spend days on the reference important to her. So important she couldn’t even speak to him? Sorry OP this smacks of entitlement.

The life lesson is that having meaningful conversations face to face lalways pays dividends. This part is on your daughter so stop blaming him - he was doing a reference based on what he knows not of what she wrote or wanted him to write. If she thinks so little of him as you have suggested why would you ask him anyway? If he is the onky one then maybe she should have laced better ground work in ensuring he saw her in the right light.

Also, hate to break it to you but the reference isn’t the only deciding factor. You may need to understand that experience before uni and her current situation may not be enough.

She needs to speak to him and try to rectify the situation without entitlement and defensiveness.

If yiu step back from this you could totally have predicted this outcome based on your post.