Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

I think that the request was made right before Christmas holidays.

Yes. That’s one solution. All part of the learning process.

Apologies if this has already been covered but is there someone else she could ask? I'm an academic and don't have personal tutees but I am frequently asked for references by students who have either done research projects or tutorials with me. Any academic who is likely to know who she is should be suitable.

If not, I think it would be entirely reasonable for her to query the reference written by her tutor. I'd feel terrible if I wrote an inaccurate reference for a student (though I can't imagine I would write one like you describe in the first place!) and would definitely take another look if a student told me I'd misunderstood something when writing their reference.

I'm an academic. This sort of stuff happens disappointingly regularly. I would probably chalk this one up to experience sadly given what you've said. Your DD needs to get herself on the radar of other academics. If she likes a lecture and the lecturer offers an office hour afterward she should attend. This PT does not sound engaged with her at all. My old UG PT was similarly as useful as a chocolate teapot, so I completely sympathise but other academics will be more open to supporting her if she is as keen as you say and has already made a habit of attending summer schools.

Tragedy that she couldn’t ask you, her mum, to provide the reference 😆

That isn't an awful reference if that is what he has said.

He's put that she is young and under-qualified, in his opinion. They will be able to look at the rest of the CV and make their own minds up based on her CV, both of those are facts that they can decide from what she's written.
So I don't think it's anything to get too worked up about.

I never went through University (not many did back in the late 70's and I wasn't much good at learning by rote which was how it was done then), but I'm struggling to understand the point of having a "Personal Tutor" who knows virtually nothing about the student, what they have done inside or outside that organisation, doesn't have any more than a 10 minute contact 3 times a year with them, and isn't available at any other time.

How on earth is such a person supposed to be appropriate for things like references when they know nothing about the person they are writing the reference on, or the subjects they are learning?

Is it? I mean she followed the rules of her institution which said she had to use her PT as her reference, she asked him in plenty of time, gave him the information needed about the summer school (and specifically wasn't allowed to write her own reference to be rubber stamped) and he wrote the reference and sent it directly to the summer school without checking it with her or even giving her the chance to pick someone who could be more positive if he really felt he couldn't recommend her. It contains errors and doesn't emphasise any of the positive points about her. Maybe "glowing" is asking too much, but perhaps we could at least aim for factual?

As a broader issue, what's the value of a "personal tutor" who only gives you at most a 10 minute meeting per term and doesn't actually remember anything about you?

A great idea, OP.

Basically university lecturers only want to be on sabbaticals and for the most part hate teaching and students, so they make it look like they're doing something teaching-related and adds to the minimum time they're required to teach by having one office hour a week. This is usually virtually to minimise the inconvenience, and the main goal is dissuading any students from actually attending as often as possible so you have a free hour you can mark as a teaching hour. If you do manage to get into one, you'll be greeted with a shrug as they apparently have no interest or clue about anything other than the one module they teach you for 1 hour a week.

He does not sounds very useful, what is the point of a personal tutor you are only allowed to speak to for half an hour per year? She should ask someone else who she does speak to, and if anyone asks why her PT is not her reference she can honestly say he doesn’t know her well enough. Since she has not given his details yet they may ignore the reference he sent anyway, at the least it will be balanced with a better one from someone else. Who did the reference for the last summer school?

I think this generation of children have had plenty to cope with, including Brexit and Covid. And come back to me about handling "disappointment and rejection" on any A level results day!!

Many of these young people now in uni didn't even get to sit their GCSEs or AS levels!!

They may not be obligated to giving "glowing references" but they are absolutely obligated to make comments they can evidence!

My (graduated) DS’s personal tutor refused to act as his referee for job applications on the grounds that he hadn’t taught him. He had two personal tutors during his undergraduate course and they were both worse than useless; just lazy and tried to get out of doing anything.

There are too few personal tutors to students generally. That’s why there is the time limitation. Some tutors have 40-50 tutees, depending on the subject.

And, yes, OP’s DD needs to ask someone else if she isn’t happy. If the application details come out over Christmas, look at the previous year’s details, go earlier, go see the PT, bring the materials, and ask him about the suitability of the school.

How many tutees did your son’s PT have, out of interest?

What’s your basis for this opinion, @devilspawn ?

Some enjoy teaching more than others but that is a far cry from what you’ve written

That is so out of order. He should have refused to do it if that is his view. Not sure what she can do now. Can she withdraw application and start another one

What is the point of a summer school? Am intrigued to know the subject

Exactly. This generation of kids is under way more pressure than I ever was at their age. Rejections and stress have been multiplied by the competitive world we now live in. The exponential growth in mental health issues in young people is evidence of just how bad things are now.

When you’ve worked hard, got the grades, found something you think you’re well suited to for a summer job, why should a sloppy lecturer who has not time for you or any of the students and lectures on Zoom FFS, get in the way of your ambition?

It’s nothing to do with not coping with rejection, it’s learning to feel into what boundaries there are when another human being who you trusted to come through for you in a professional setting, is actually a dick.

We’ve all come across them at work… no need to belittle OP and her DD like this is their comeuppance.

What is wrong with some people?

I would try to get at least two other lecturers to write to the email address in support of her application and I’d make a complaint about her PT.

It him who needs his comeuppance, not Op’s DD.

he should retract his reference and send an email to this effect saying he was wrong.

Networking
something to put on cv
work experience
Potential job when you graduate if they like and remember you
new experience
learn if you like this field or not…

I could go on…

assuming he thinks he’s wrong

My experience of a (Russell Group) university and also previously living with staff who work there.

I think his reference is bizarre at best.

A reference is about the person. Not telling the company/university/school etc what they should be looking for in a candidate. That strikes me as someone who likes to throw their weight around and know better than everyone else

I think that reference says more about him than it does about your dd.

He has no idea what exactly they are looking for

He could have put that he doesn’t know her experience in this field as it isn’t part of her course but she is young and hard working and on track to get a good degree.