Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

I think that might be stretching a wee little bit.

Personally that’s not something I’d pass on to my kid.
Id want them to find out first hand why PT thought her unsuitable and work towards rectifying that
I wouldn’t immediately start pointing the finger at potential unfairness without proof. It could just leave your kid making excuses all the time and never moving on positively

The passive aggression is so very entertaining. You are very practiced.

And here's another passive aggressive one.
This is hilarious. I wonder if there is a procedure for passive aggression?

Honest to god, this is rediculous.
You know that saying, when your friend is trying to work out the 1000s of reasons he didnt call, and the actual reason is "hes just not that into you"?
This is this.
He just didnt think she was good enough for it.
Thats it. She will have to accept it, and moreover, so will you, she is not entitled to it just because you think she is.

I wonder if any of these posters have any idea how sexist and pompous some of these tutors are? I was thought by men hardly older than I was full of self importance. Op something similar happened to my sister and she ended up not getting the scholarship funding for her phd. She might not be qualified of the right person but there’s no need to be so damning and surely he should be fighting her corner. Can’t believe some posters are saying it’s your daughter’s fault. I bet he’s a right twat.

My key take from this is you seem overly involved in the situation. Even allowing that everything you have said is correct it’s really for your DD to resolve or otherwise surely? Dealing with university life, with other students and indeed tutors, alongside the academic work is part and parcel of becoming an independent adult.

I realise she’s asked for advice, and I am not suggesting you offer no support. There’s only so much you can do, and at the end of the day she’ll either get a place, or have to cope with the disappointment of not getting one this time. It might be better for you both if you stepped back a bit.

To be honest I think you are going about things the wrong way. Firstly it’s difficult to give you advice as you are cryptic about the nature of the position/qualifications.

Just complain about him. He should not state anyone is too young and unqualified in a reference. He doesn’t know what qualifications your daughter is alleging to have, for him to definitively state she doesn’t hold them. Plus they will presumably see her age from her date of birth if they’re wanting to take her on, so why does he need to draw attention to it? Age is a protected characteristic isn’t it. He shouldn’t be using that as a reason for them to not take her on. I don’t think the university would be happy if they were made aware of his actions.

Not when 1/3 of universities have redundancies.

There is overstretching, and there is overstretching. Academics are in work up to their eyeballs, and carrying on often when they don't know if they will have a job the next term. There is also a tremendous amount of precarity in the profession and fixed term contracts.

I also noticed (I think) that the application process for the OP's DD was over Christmas or around the holidays.

Thank you.

I agree that no one should be forced to give a positive reference if they don’t agree with it.

However the problem here stems from the reasoning given.

You have said “He just didnt think she was good enough for it. Thats it.”.

He has actually said she is too young and unqualified. That is disputable.

He tried to hide behind that instead of being upfront. He hasn’t told the student, that she isn’t good enough for the school for X and Y reasons and A and B are things she can improve on. She hasn’t been given the feedback, it’s obviously not helpful leaving her in the dark and shooting off negative references.

It’s more legally sound for people to refuse a reference as opposed to give a negative one.

I can just imagine, having experienced the type myself too. The idea that they wouldn't deliberately give a shitty reference just because they could is very naive. My MA course was mainly female students and yet I'd put good money on the few men on that course achieving routinely higher marks than the women (I am a woman and did very well, before I get accused of being bitter, it's just an observation).

I agree with this. If she is one of the best applicants for the summer school as evidenced by her full application she will be offered a place.

@AnonymousStudentParent it sounds like your DD is a conscientious and high achieving student at a reputable University. It also sounds like she is used to success. It might be she hasn't learnt resilience in the face of setbacks yet. This is crucial as a life lesson, learning to dust yourself off and carry on.

So she needs to polish and submit her application. She also needs to think about a plan B for this summer.

When you look at some of the most successful people in life it is their ability to deal with failure which helped them succeed ultimately.

Also why were you listening to her and other students summer school speeches last year? Unless you are in the field yourself that is just a bit weird. Of course you are proud of her (we all are of our DC) but as they transition to adulthood having their parents come to watch them at work is just a bit odd!

My gut feeling on reading the first few posts here is that the OP's DD was at fault in not having a face to face meeting with the PT to discuss the summer school and reference request, and that she should have made it clear to him not to take any action until they had discussed it.

But the OP assures us that their DD has followed the institutions guideleines to the letter...

I can only conclude that the PT is a complete plonker and his arse needs a good kicking.

I think the OP's DD needs to request an urgent F2F meeting to discuss this and agree a way forward. sounds like the DD is more than able to collect her evidence and to put her case to the PT that his reference is neither fair nor factually accurate and see how this can be recovered.

For £9k a year I'd say the PT's reference is wholly unsatisfactory and unreasonable insofar as it is factually inaccurate and misrepresents the DD's suitability for the summer school (based on what the OP has told us).

If the PT can't (or won't) rectify this situation I'd consider making a complaint to the institution - although the OP won't want to paint a target on her DD's back...

Shes an adult.
It’s for her to ask for feedback not him
This isn’t school, there’s very little hand holding at Uni.

Can she find a secondary referee? another more helpful lecturer or other member of staff?

What an arsehole. Such an abuse of power to basically act as a block to a young person's progress.

He was not upfront in saying she is lacking in X quality, for her to then ask for feedback. She isn’t aware of an issue as instead he told her that he wrote a reference noting she is too young and under qualified. He hid behind that, instead of saying how he really feels. He said she is nice and hardworking. Why would that prompt her to ask for feedback?

That's nonsense. Just because the OP came on here to ask the question, does not mean that she is "overly involved".

Quite honestly, I would be just as "involved" if it was a child of mine, and I am willing to bet that most mothers would do the same.

I wouldn't think much of them as a mother if they left their child to flounder in a difficult situation.

Clearly she needs to ask for feedback or her mum wouldn’t be on here wondering what’s going on.
DD doesn’t understand why she was given that reference.
If she wants to know, she needs to ask. She needs to take control.
It really isn’t for her PT to be the one to arrange meetings for her.

It sounds to me as if he just carelessly dashed something off, just to get it done.

He doesn't seem to know the young woman at all, and anything he does know, he forgets!

Do these people not keep any form of notes of their meetings?

Do people generally meet up to discuss references prior to them being written? It's not a practice I have ever been aware of.

I think unis in general offer very poor service for £9k a year!

Especially when you think that most of them don't have that £9k in hand, so have to borrow it and pay it back with interest!

Maybe having a meeting isn't part of the uni's procedure? I mean, it could be a lot of meetings?

He doesn’t even teach her and can’t remember anything about her from the previous sessions she’s had with him.

Read the thread.

OP I don’t know why so many people are pushing back on you.

You are 100% right to come on here and try to understand more.

Have those posters who say you’re overly involved seen the state of the jobs market and how difficult it is to secure a graduate job?

summer school places are really important!!

I agree
Im not aware of meeting up to discuss a reference or indeed giving anyone much of a heads up on what they expect.
DD, however, hasn’t had much contact with her PT.

I agree. I loved my Masters but was it value for money? No. Was there any pastoral care? No. It was a passion project for me, which is why I did it, but as someone who works in the private sector, I find the way universities are run absolutely baffling - a lot of money spent for absolutely zero customer care. I get that universities are expensive to run but that doesn't justify charging a lot of money for very little.