Getting a third - what next?

[Selwyngum]

My DD is in her third year at Cambridge, studying Engineering. She hasn’t got on at all well there. She failed her first year exams and got a third in her second year exams. She has just started her year 3 exams and thinks she is on course for a 3rd again, which will mean she can’t progress to do the fourth year (MEng).

She is talking about dropping out and retaking the year. I’m not sure that’s worthwhile as she has worked incredibly hard this year, but just doesn’t seem to get the results.

She has struggled with depression in the past so keeping her on an even keel is much more important to me than any academic results. I want to be as supportive as possible but I’m at a loss.

My gut feeling is that a third class degree won’t get her very far in terms of employment. I’m wondering if she could transfer in September to the third year of an engineering degree elsewhere.

She got 4 A* grades at A level, is very bright but dyslexic. In hindsight Cambridge was the wrong place for her but regretting that doesn’t help her now.

Does anyone have any insight or experience? She feels she’s wasted a huge amount of time and money and I would love to help her work out what to do next. Please be kind.

Errol, mea culpa. I had suggested it as an example of an area of engineering where the rules Tizer cites in terms of Masters, Chartered etc don’t seem to apply, certainly based on the stuff DD seems to get from recruiters and the encouragement she got from people running research projects, despite only having a BSc. I don’t know anything about aeronautical but was sort of suggesting that careers in different areas of engineering might vary in terms of requirements and/or entry points, and that the Tizer DH might not be omniscient.

TD:LR if the results don’t work out the OPs DD might approach firms within the sector to see if there are other entry points, with a plan to apply for a stand alone masters once she has some experience under her belt.

(Off topic - Biomed engineering is very broad. DD had a pretty dazzling array of options: nano, biochemical, mechanical, scanning and so on. Exciting new field.)

cannot understand IMechE website then. Must be fiction. For the vast majority of professional engineers, the Institutions provide the pathways for qualification to get to the highest levels in engineering disciplines. No one is behind the curve. I’m assuming@ErrolTheDragon your DD wants to get Chartered? Obviously the OP’s DD could change to Bio Med! It must be a fairly unusual form of engineering where no Meng or further study or even experience is required. Just a BEng. Not that we know anyone who is a risky doing the work as the poster says DD is a doctor.

Visited DD yesterday. She seemed not too bad... though she is good at masking so we don't always get the full story.

If I've understood correctly, her degree grade if she leaves this year will be based on 30% of year 2 exams and 70% of this year's exams... ie may be a 3rd, partly because of being dragged down by last year.

BUT this year's mark also includes a percentage for a project which starts as soon as exams stop. DD will potentially do better in this as she is much stronger at the practical side. She needs a 2.2 in this year's mark in order to be allowed to progress to the MEng -- where apparently there are fewer modules to take, fewer exams and a longer project. That is scored as pass, merit and distinction. She wants to try for this and I fervently hope that she manages it. But if she doesn't, the thread has given me lots of ideas for how to support her with her next step.

@Selwyngum I think that all sounds positive.

@Selwyngum Slightly surprised you still
want this level of pressure for her. Cambridge at all costs? It’s part of the problem in the first place I think. It didn’t need to be.

If she pulls it off this year and gets a 2:2, that would suggest she may have figured out how to deal with this course, which would be great!

Fwiw (which may not be much), I think that - even despite them being in the worst covid years - my dd found the second two years a bit better than the first two because they're focussing on their specialisms, plus as you say the project work.

did you bother reading the wiki page which explains the term? It's not 'a form of engineering', it's a broad range of fields, many of which are multidisciplinary requiring a range of different engineering, scientific and software skills . A small subset are mechanical engineers some of whom doubtless do require professional CEng status from the IMechE. Not sure why you're struggling with this, or the point needmoresleep was trying to make with this example.

Really encouraging @Selwyngum. I know some at Oxford who have thrived under similar circumstances in their final year once the exam years have passed. Nice to see something positive on this thread instead of doom & gloom, writing off your DD's future prospects.

@TizerorFizz I most certainly don't want this level of pressure for her. In fact while we were talking the other day, I told her that if she does get a 3rd and have to leave Cambridge, there will be a very obvious silver lining of getting out of what is (for her) a toxic environment. But it's her life, and so far she seems to want to continue at Cambridge, despite me urging her to consider transferring somewhere else -- not just at this point but several times over the years.

@ErrolTheDragon Er yes but I thought we were talking about engineering. Is another discipline relevant? Cannot see it but accept I’m thick.

@Selwyngum Unfortunately she fears failure. Bright dc do. They don’t always see the other pitfalls as parents do. Good luck though but it could be a further year with a bumpy ride.

Great news, OP

@Selwyngum your DD iappears very much a “finisher”. She had far less time to work through the barrage of concepts than most fellow students due to all that extra hours it must have taken her to actually read though the material. Really hope she has pulled it off this year for the exams and gets the chance to do some deeper, more creative thinking through project work. However Cambridge is not the only place where she can develop. It will probably take her a bit more time to come to terms with that.

There have been some ups and downs since I last posted but I don’t want to try everyone’s patience.

But I have to have a moan and a despairing eyeroll about the fact that YESTERDAY the department issued new course content for the exam TODAY. Unbelievable.

Thats really stressful and chaotic of them.

Your poor DD.

Not exactly course content ... I think that's more about the fact that some of the past exam papers have errors though wtf they haven't sorted out the errata earlier ...well, actually wtf do they ever have exam papers with errors in the first place.

Yes you’re right @ErrolTheDragon. I used that phrase because DD received an automated email saying “new content has been added to your course”. But in any case it’s ludicrously amateurish to be presenting material with errors in it and then correcting it at the eleventh hour.

Surely at that point, you have to have a mark scheme that accounts for both what the students were taught at the time, and what was actually correct. That's crazy. I hope the students as a whole make a complaint.

Also, one of the questions in the exam told them to “sketch” something. Given that they often have to draw things, they didn’t know what to do as this was an essay paper. One of the students was brave enough to ask the invigilator who had to ask the examiner… who sent a scribbled note (that the students had to decipher) saying they were not required to draw.

What an absolute shitshow.

My best wishes to your daughter. It sounds as if the exam gods are throwing Biblical plagues and pestilence at her. When is her final exam? I hope there is then a chance to relax, and be proud of herself for simply getting through. And then that the exam results are better than she fears.

Thanks @Needmoresleep … last exam is on Monday (the dreaded Business) and then she’s straight into the extended project. But at least the extreme stress will be over.

That's terrible @Selwyngum . I hope she can keep her cool and do her best.

I'm dealing with two teenagers with ADHD here - my daughter who's second year uni and currently on a third for this year and ds who's got A Levels and is still trying to teach himself the year 13 content! Both of them have got massively behind. I just keep reminding myself that whatever happens, there will be other options available to them.

@Rummikub yes, dd contacted the student support services and now she has 25% extra time in exams and the option to extend coursework deadlines (I'm not sure that second one is that useful as it just pushes everything back and leaves less time to revise for the exams!). I'm hopeful things will improve in year 3 too, as she'll be done with all the compulsory (too Science-based) Psychology content and gets to choose her modules. She's already worked out which are the essay-based ones and she has the option of taking a module outside of Psych too.

@crazycrofter that sounds good. Dd had that option too and it was a good safety net if required. Yes be strategic in module choices for year 3. V wise.

I just wanted to update this old thread with the wonderful news that DD did progress to her fourth year, and today found out that she passed. It's the most incredible relief after another difficult year.

I'm very grateful to people for taking the time to comment and advise at a time when I was feeling extremely anxious about what the future held for her. Thank you!