I'm feeling like uni just isn't an option for our children. It's made me very sad.

[F0XCUBs]

In tears this morning. We have two bright children. One would go to uni next year. But we can't afford it. We are middle income rather than very low or high. They would get a loan but it wouldn't cover all the rent at most unis.
DH says they have to go to local uni or do an apprenticeship and that is that. DD would really like to go to a new place from where we live.
Yes I know we should have prepared for this for years, I'm sorry I really didn't know we were expected to contribute £300-500 per month! We didn't go to uni. Between us we earn about £50.000. But don't have spare money left over.
I know they could get jobs but dd1 has applied for twelve jobs in our town and not got one. She is autistic and lacks social skills so I don't think we can rely on her getting one. Especially if there are thousands of other kids applying for the same part time jobs.
How do people afford it?! It seems so unfair that we can't give them the opportunity
When DS wants to go we definitely can't afford two lots of that money

Our plant batcher is 29 and he made £37k after tax in the first seven months of this year (gets a cut in what he batches as a bonus). I've actually seen his payslip so I know he's telling the truth.

A survey undertaken by Selco Builders Warehouse has revealed tradespeople are happier and earn more than university graduates.

The survey found that you’ll earn a living wage as a tradesperson by 22. For the general population, this will vary between 22 to 29. Generally, attending university delays people going into full-time work. Many rely on part-time jobs, grants and loans to cover living expenses until they graduate.

Speaking of loans, the average graduate will owe around £46,000 after training and education. Tradespeople, however, owe just £5,600 in comparison.

Leaving home to live independently is a goal for many young adults across the UK. Selco’s survey found that that dream becomes a reality over a year earlier for tradespeople. Leaving home at 23, the rest of the UK doesn’t take that leap until they’re 24.5.

The next step is usually homeownership, but many tradies take it even further. Owning their own property three years earlier than the rest of the population isn’t enough for tradespeople, as 1 in 6 will also own more than one property at one time.

https://www.options-skills.co.uk/blog/tradespeople-earn-university/#:~:text=A%20survey%20undertaken%20by%20Selco,who%20attended%20and%20graduated%20university.

Construction apprentices will earn thousands of pounds more than many university graduates, according to new research.

The Federation of Master Builders looked into the average salaries of UK tradespeople and found that many are earning well above the average wage for university graduates.

The research found that the average wage for a university graduate in England is £32,000 a year, while the average bricklayer and roofer is earning £42,000 a year across the UK.

When you focus in on particular regions, things look even rosier for tradespeople. In London, a bricklayer is commanding wages of up to £90,000 a year.

Brickies have had a good few years, after 2016 research found UK bricklayers were earning £25 an hour.

https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/articles/2018/03/uk-tradesmen-earn-more-than-university-graduates/

Newly-qualified tradespeople earn significantly more than graduates. New data from Access Training UK has found that more Britons than ever are learning a trade skill with the goal of undertaking a career change.

University has long been seen as the route to financial success. However, graduate salaries have stalled in recent years. The High Fliers report has found that the median starting salary for graduates has been held at £30,000 for the past five years. However, this will be influenced by graduate salaries in elite industries, such as legal and banking, and other sources have indicated that a realistic starting salary is between £21,000 and £25,000.

In contrast, a newly qualified tradesperson could realistically expect to earn £31,500 in their first year on the job. This means young tradespeople will be earning approximately £7,000 more than their academic peers, without having to bear the £45,000 debt that typically comes with studying at university.

https://phpionline.co.uk/news/newly-qualified-tradespeople-earn-significantly-more-than-graduates/

Apparently Belfast has the lowest cost of living in the UK. Queens has a scholarship worth £3000 for students from the rest of the UK who get ABB. Maybe a flight away would not be ideal but perhaps worth a look?

@LadyOfTheWagon thanks for those links. Really interesting. Anecdotally I can see where you are coming from as I’m currently having some improvements priced up. Most of the cost is indeed labour!

In the nicest way, is it worth her spending money on university? If she can’t get a job now she’s unlikely to get a graduate job after completing a degree. A graduate employer will be a lot more picky than a part time employer.

Wrong thinking.

Just because a McJob won’t employ her, lots of employers are starting to build neurodiverse hiring strategies and programs. They recognise that people with neurodiversity can contribute hugely to different roles.

It's not the right career path for everyone, that's for sure. But I feel like it's an area that a lot of people aren't very clued up on, especially those from middle class families where most relatives/parents etc are in professional careers - it's understandable tbf.

I was the same. My parents would've supported whatever I'd chosen but I just never really questioned the fact I was going to uni. It just seemed the logical option. However, I hated the corporate environment and am much happier in the construction sector where I can just get on with it and don't have to navigate corporate politics etc.

Reading about the daughter in question who is very smart but struggles with things like eye contact, my first thought was that this wouldn't be much of an impediment to a technical role. These jobs don't really rely on 'climbing the ladder' and networking so much as getting the certifications etc, and lots of the traditionally male environments are desperate to employ more women and encourage diversity.

The more physical hands on jobs still tend to be 99% male but I see increasing numbers of women in site management and supervisory roles nowadays.

But of course it still ultimately depends on whether the teen in question is interested.

Just one anecdote, but last summer my uni student DD applied for dozens of traditional summer jobs and didn't even get replies from most of them. However, she did get a paid internship directly related to her degree. So the two don't always go together.

I'd also say that a lot of people still think of men working on houses etc when they think of trades/construction, which is understandable as that's the most relatable element to the general public.

However, imo the best opportunities for young smart people are graduate schemes or apprenticeships with the big companies that do civil work etc. Colas, Balfour Beatty, Careys, Bam, McAlpine, etc. I'm working on stuff like HS2 and big civil projects in the Midlands (Brum, Derby, Notts, Coventry, Wolverhampton, etc) and I meet a lot of young people who are doing pretty well.

Without sounding condescending I also feel like the bar is lower in some of these sectors as compared to more officey jobs as it's less about soft skills and how you present yourself and most of the skills need to be learnt. With corporate jobs I feel like more of the high flyers were on the ball from day one and were pretty focused straight out of uni as opposed to being a bit wet behind the ears and learning on the job.

Obv I'm generalising here....

There's some very cherry picked data in there! For example, the age that the young person leaves home - graduates may not officially leave home until slightly later than "tradies", but they are likely living independently for most of the year as students. I have 2 DC in university, they come home 3 times a year in the holidays. Their friends who left school at 16 to learn a trade are still living at home 52 weeks of the year.

There are also career limiting health implications of manual work. Most builders I know in their 50s have back problems and are looking to retire. Whereas the office workers in their 50s are often still looking for promotion opportunities and furthering their careers. I certainly wouldn't want to retire in my 50s.

I think you're making the assumption I mentioned above - i.e. conflating builders with the people that come round and do your extension/build your garden wall. Whilst they're technically builders too, I was talking more about the large scale civil/infrastructure stuff, which is why I mentioned HS2/Balfour Beatty, etc.

With house renovations etc the main guy making good money will be the gaffer but the young lads with wheelbarrows etc won't be on mega bucks. But this isn't really the kind of work construction graduates go into or the type of work that an apprenticeship
with one of the big companies will lead to.

Usually the young people on the management training schemes are walking round site with a clipboard learning about operational management. I had a 21yo lad out with me the other day who was on the management training scheme at one of our aggregate clients. He was saying he'll be able to either branch into operational, technical, or more client facing. He defo won't be messing around with many wheelbarrows. Tbf, though, there's not a whole lot of manual labour going on at most of our big civil customer sites. Almost everything is done with a machine of some sort.

Also, not everyone that works in construction is a builder. There's not much manual labour involved in operating a 360 digger, concrete pump, tower crane, loading shovel, concrete/mortar plant, etc etc.

You do need to cherry pick a bit, though, and it's exactly the same in office work. Much like somebody on a construction management scheme won't be a labourer, somebody who graduates in economics isn't likely to end up as an admin assistant.

Truck driving is easy money too, although not a job for everyone. Couple of grand to get license and absolutely guaranteed you can be on £45-£50k within a month or two. The guy that used to work at the local petrol station on close to minimum wage got his a few months back and he's earning a grand a week delivering booze. Not even a big truck, just an 18t curtainsider. £52k for wheeling bottles into a hotel on a trolley. He's a nice guy but really not the sharpest tool.

A good mate of mine earns around £65k driving the arctics for the Mondelez contract, delivering chocolate. Job is 4 on/4 off and supposed to be 4x12 compressed hours but in reality is 8-10 hours a day for four days and then a four day weekend every week. She opts to do a fifth day on double pay which is what bumps up the salary to £65k and still gets a three day weekend every week.

Job sounds waaaay less stressful than what most £65k office jobs would entail - managing teams, client presentations, etc. She just drives 3-4 hours on the motorway, chills for a couple of hours whilst being unloaded and then drives back.

People often seem to get a bit snotty about well paid blue collar jobs but I'm much happier than when I was managing projects for a FTSE company. I literally stop thinking about work the second I walk out the yard.

@LadyOfTheWagon I wish my LGV driving DH was on £50k. He isn't a tramper though, which is admittedly where the money is.

There are lots of well paying jobs for arctic drivers atm. Fuel deliveries/tankers are well paid (although requires ADR, which is only really a few hundred quid and couple days in the classroom). But supermarket work is decent too, often £45k with chance to make more via overtime etc.

Most of the big companies with depots are paying £20 p/h, which is over £50k based on a typical 10hr day. But general haulage hasn't paid particularly well for a long time. Supposedly because operators have driven the price into the ground by aggressively undercutting each other/race to the bottom. Getting an operator's license and leasing your own wagon can also be a good earner - a lot of the mixer drivers in the concrete industry do this. Hanson pay £150 just for the truck turning up and then each job is paid on top of that.

I wrnt self employed so qe aern less on paper and dc could access university bursaries

@F0XCUBs , how are you getting on with the application process now?
(I am ignoring all the recent posts in October, just interested in Your update)

Even though I'm 2 years older, due to having a few gap years my brother and I were at uni at the same time. Student Loans took this into consideration and we both got higher maintenance loans and there was less parental contribution expected. Was a while ago, not sure if still the same now, so don't know if that's helpful..

Mine are both at uni, what the student finance do is take some figure away from the parents earnings amount, if there are multiple students from one family applying, and recalculate when the second applies... (for both) so it doesn't make a huge difference to the actual amount of maintenance loan able to be awarded ... I think in our particular case, and every one will vary, it meant they could borrow an extra £450ish.
("We" are just above minimum loan)

@LadyOfTheWagon you're only looking at starting salaries though. With a corporate type job in IT, banking, consulting, law etc you'd easily be on £100k+ in your early 30s and I know people who are. Plus pension, bonuses, share options etc. And it only goes up from there. Well worth £50k investment in a degree.