We are letting DD down already!

[Festoonlights]

I would really appreciate some wisdom. DD is making her choices for universities. Her predicted grades are AA and A in maths, biology and geography - she is also currently doing a fourth in economics predicted an A although she is thinking to drop econ.

She is passionate about environmental sustainability and loves field work and wants to mix it with ecology etc at Edinburgh or do a straight biology degree. Dh after much research is imploring her to mix this with environmental sustainability with economics as the job prospects are so limited with biology and biosciences/environmental science. He seems to think the job market is tight and badly paid in bio areas. DD does enjoy econ but prefers more fun subjects.

Dd is a bright and capable student, but we are getting very lost as to how to help her make a decision, she isn’t fixed on anything atm.

Battle lines are becoming apparent as dh says environmental stuff is a hobby/ interest not a career. She has ruled out law and most other routes. Any thoughts?

One thing that I’ve noticed is that it’s often career changers that do these new jobs. They are the people that set up the firms and have the determination to move into something new. New grads then follow. Science evolves. However I’m struggling to think of anyone I know who is young and doing something that didn’t exist 5 years ago.

İ suspect the OPs husband had a warped idea of what is an adequate income. Several old school friends have jobs in bio tech based in Dundee, they have nice homes and from what I see on Facebook go on holiday and support a typical (Scottish style) middle class lifestyle.
However I am reminded of a flatmate I had in London in the early 90s who declared he was not prepared to start a family on less than £80k/annum. Neither DH nor I have ever earned that much (we went to Art School!) but have three kids and a good house in a nice area. The friend earns a high six figure salary but hates his job and spends a massive amount on a house in Guildford and school fees. I'm not in the least bit jealous.

@Wbeezer
In the 90s it would have been a decent salary but it depends what you want for DC and where you live.I think that not everyone on a very high income hates their job. DD earns well and loves her job. All her friends doing the same job love it so money isn’t always achieved by being miserable. You have to factor in what jobs are possible and that London and home counties are expensive. You are better off being a doctor in an area with cheep housing. No doubt about that!

DS is holding an offer for biological sciences at Durham. It is broader than many as they want you to get a grounding across the areas in year 1 before choosing the focus of your degree. So you can choose to focus eg. on zoology or biomedicine or stay on a broad biology path in year 2 where at many other universities you would have to choose specifically on your UCAS application.

So Geography keeps way more options open than biological sciences at most universities?

In the 90s it would have been a decent salary

£80k in the mid 1990s is the equivalent of £170k now - way more than “decent” when you consider that the average salary in 2022 is something like £25k.

According to the ONS, median full time salary is £31,770.

What you want from life rather determines what job you need to aspire to in order to get it. If you want to live in some areas of Surrey and use private schools, I’m sure you might need £170,000 a year. We had a similar lifestyle when DC were at home. DH lived his career and at nearly 70 is still doing some work. It’s incorrect to think high earnings and aiming high makes you unhappy. It gives you lots of choices.

Lived? Loved his career!

@TizerorFizz of course not everyone who earns a high salary hates their job but this particular friend is someone who I've known since school and I know that he wishes he'd studied History instead of Accountancy as at 18 he didn't stand up to his parents and point out that he could get on a graduate training scheme with a range of less specialist degrees.
The £80,000 figure just stuck in our head as it seemed huge at the time!
He earns a lot of money now @ 500k but works in a very high environment he does not enjoy and has health issues exacerbated by stress. He used to say he was planning to retire early but he has become "trapped" by a very expensive lifestyle. I actually worry that he will not not make it to retirement. He did try to make some lifestyle changes at one point but the plan didn't come to fruition.
If he had not expressed regret about his choices I would not have thought it relevant to mention him in the context of this post.
Incidentally a friends son has just graduated with a chemical engineering degree and got a good graduate job with a company that does environmental auditing for big companies, it is indeed a growing sector.

I think you’d friend was just unlucky. DH earned big money but he’s Teflon coated! It was his business so extra stress in some ways. The company fails and employees are out of work. Never mind our lifestyle - which we do enjoy! If it makes you ill, of course it’s time to readjust. DH was fortunate that he never listened to his parents if he had, he would still be bored as an employee! They were dead against him being self employed and living or failing through his own efforts. However sometimes you need to do what’s right for you snd not other people. Often sideways moves are worth considering too.

İ think the message of this thread is that parents need to be well informed with up to date info before advising their children on choices and they should accept that their children have the right to disagree with them.

Dh will support dd 100% whatever she decides, in all the ways he possibly can. He has always followed her dreams and championed her choices and hobbies, he is so gentle and caring I feel I have done a massive disservice to him on here! ☹️
We both had to work so hard to be secure, without any support or help at all, dd has never known any level of hardship or difficulty so she hasn’t even factored in what a low paid job is likely to be like in reality.

The replies have been so helpful thank you, and we are reading and discussing each one.

I don't see why p[arents cannot give some guidance - 4 of my children are lawyers (last 2 will qualify in 2024) and I have not put them off that and would not have supported post graduate studies if they were pursuing endless MAs into knitting studies or something similarly pointless. Most young people are not that clued up about money and how much it costs just to replicate their life.

However ultimately it is their choice and as long as they do not require the parent to support them (my older 3 are all entirely financially self sufficient now) then it is the child's choice.

One of mine has a lot of interest in environmental issues and loved his BSc at Bristol but has been very happy doing law for 2 years since then - his choice, certainly no pressure from me at all.

Your husband needs to learn that it’s time to advise but your daughter has to take her own decisions now. The time of forcing her to do what parents want is over now, she’s an adult

Most young people are not that clued up about money and how much it costs just to replicate their life. I would agree with this and a fair number of middle class younger adults have their career choices cushioned by their parents well into their twenties.

I also echo that advice should be focussed on keeping options open for higher earning and interesting careers without extinguishing that excitement for learning and the future which will motivate her work. At this stage the DD should certainly give up A level economics so that she can get the highest grade possible for A level maths. IMO for all the reasons given above she does n’t need economics as part of her her degree (although she could do some economic modules or join an appropriate society to help commercial awareness).

Also (and i might just be one or two of my children) teenagers will say things ilke XYZ has a very high paid job (because they happen to be given an expensive car as a perk - but in fact the basic wage is low but that just seems like a very rich kind of thing to have to a young person, understandably). If you are on a limited student budge (most students) even £20k a year before tax sounds like a king's ransom. So I certainly have no problems if parents want to help students have a think about what careers might buy them the life style they want and they may not want much of course as lots of people have different aims in life.

''imploring'', ''battle lines''? that's totally over the top.

It is your daughter's choice and her life, not your husband's or yours...

You can give your opinion/advice but you should not be trying to guilt-trip her or force her into anything.

Your husband needs to back off.

Jesus.

DD has just chosen her GCSEs and I found that hard enough - there are far more subjects available to her than there were for me, so I felt overwhelmed by that, let alone University applications.

I work in STEM, and haven’t long finished my UG and PG, so my University experience will still be fresh when she’s in Sixth Form.

The single most important thing is that they study something they love; closely followed by future prospects.

It wouldn’t occur to me to expect any of my 3 DDs to work in STEM; this is the thing I love.

They’ll figure out what they love, and I’ll support them in the best way to pursue that.

If I’d done what my own father demanded - Law - I’d have been bored shitless, and unable to later do a degree in a subject I actually love. He’s still angry that I didn’t go at 18. I did myself a favour, in the long run, by refusing to listen to his boorish demands.

Most young people are not that clued up about money and how much it costs just to replicate their life.

My recently graduated DS knows how to budget - it’s a life skill that parents can teach. I now get told off for not shopping at Aldi / Lidl as much as I should.

Like your DD, my DS also did economics in year 12 and dropped in year 13 (also did Bio, chem and maths).

This may not be right for your DD, but my DS has chosen Biotechnology for his degree. At some unis, e.g. Manchester and Leeds, this is basically microbiology (disease, vaccines, genetics, etc) + some business studies/entrepreneurship. At others, it's just microbiology, and in Edinburgh you can add modules in pretty much any subject you want, of course.

In terms of career prospects, he/we hope that this will give him the option to have a scientific career if he has the ability and desire, but may also set him up well for city investment/consulting/marketing type jobs related to the biotech world. He's not started the course yet, though, so we have no idea if this will be a successful strategy!

Have you looked at the UCAS level 6 and 7 (degree and masters) apprentice degrees? I was browsing this morning and saw some environmental bits and pieces. Lots on engineering, which you’ll have to plod through!
careerfinder.ucas.com/jobs/degree/#browsing