Lecturer's child at open day for second time

[Igloo71]

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

I think it would surprise people to understand how much the running of a university is actually reliant on the goodwill of staff.

[quote Igloo71]@Puffalicious my self important son. wow.[/quote]
Yes, self-important: why is this minor inconvenience affecting him so much? It's as if the open day should be there to impress him and reel him in. He's not that important, he's one of many and he should be pleased that a university with such a good reputation are potentially offering him a place, not slagging it off at the first opportunity.

@TheBigDilemma

… but I agree that most staff in universities (both support and academic stuff are feeling under a lot of pressure, I would dare to say that a lot of that pressure is led by marketing department demands, a stupid amount of red tape and higher expectations from students who seem to be expecting a bespoke university experience.

[Waves from a uni marketing dept]…we’re under pressure too, direct from the vice chancellor. My team and I work hard along with academics and recruitment and admissions to ensure students get all they need to make the right decision for them without any of us cracking up in the process. I’m hugely respectful of what my academic colleagues do and in the main we have great working relationships.

@SpinsForGin

I think it would surprise people to understand how much the running of a university is actually reliant on the goodwill of staff.

Yes!!

It is not ‘normal’ to have a child at an Open Day, no.

Most HOS/D that I know work way beyond their contractual hours (like most academic staff to be honest). It is not a family-friendly profession - that is probably why their are still relatively few female professors. Maybe she hasn’t seen her kid in a few weekends in a row - on top of working all week. Who knows?

The pressure has increased exponentially- more, more, more, more expected. An increasing amount of ‘official’ weekend working too. Most universities do not offer academic staff pay or TOIL for this either - and if you do get the latter, it is pretty hard to take. A lot of academic staff don’t get their annual leave entitlement in, let alone ‘extras’. It is worth noting that universities do not ‘close’ in the same way as schools or colleges. The Summer period - when 10 years ago you could get some research done - is one long Board of Exams nowadays.

So, no, I wouldn’t get too excited about this or ‘report’ it anywhere. I would suggest that my DS/D takes an email address and sets-up a 1:1 conversation.

It’s very unprofessional imo but the question you need to ask is how much actual in person lessons will kids have. Some unis are still remote which is unacceptable.

You know that teachers in primary/secondary aren't paid extra for after school
Clubs, Parents Evenings and overnight residentials right? They do it for free

people who have not find a way to work around the needs of their kids or their pets after 2 years are really taking the mickey
And where wraparound care has simply ceased? Or its staff are off with COVID? What then? We've had both these happen.

OP there are some very self important people on this thread. I think you may have hit a nerve with some of the people claiming to be academics. I hope your son makes a good choice of university and wish him all the best in the future.

@SpinsForGin

I think it would surprise people to understand how much the running of a university is actually reliant on the goodwill of staff.

Absolutely.

Last year there was a whole Twitter hashtag campaign with male lecturers being lauded for holding their students' babies so the students could attend. Funny how the men are seen as saviours

I think your son's reaction was a bit extreme TBH.

Exactly this.

I can't get my head around your DS having such a strong reaction to this that he'd change his choice of university.

Surely he realises this child won't be there during his usual lectures and seminars or sitting beside him in the Library or wanting to socialise in the SU?

I do agree it's not a great choice by the HoD, but mainly for her,not others. I also work in a university & I'd be distracted & stressed if my kids were with me.

I'm also really taken aback that you didn't realise this was extra unpaid work, just like most of the class planning, pastoral support & admin tasks are. Similar to teachers I guess. Nobody I know minds this, it's part of the job & most of us are really happy to meet prospective students

@SpinsForGin

I think it would surprise people to understand how much the running of a university is actually reliant on the goodwill of staff.

Absolutely.

Shocking! Ask for a refund.

You need to rethink how you see fees. He’s paying nothing upfront and he is unlikely to repay the whole loan anyway and he only pays a set percentage of his earnings over a certain amount. How many loans like that do you know of? It’s a graduate tax, not a loan as such. And despite these loans being introduced, staff pay hasn’t gone up or anything.
He (and you) sound like there’s an undertone of misogyny going on. How very dare a woman at an open day have her child there when your son (who is paying dontcha know) expects complete professionalism. Also, he shouldn’t kid himself that any other places will care more about him either. The prestigious RG unis often cram 500 students into a cohort, the staff have no clue who the individual students are and most of them see teaching as a burden anyway. So if he’s choosing not to go there just because of this woman and her child, it seems fairly shortsighted.

I think I'm going to have to step away from this now. He'll be home soon and this thread has been helpful, but also made me feel really rubbish. Both DS (when I tell him about uni systems, contracts for open days) and I are supportive of lecturers for this - it sounds crap and shocking. What I cannot understand is that despite sharing our personal circumstances, being told my son lacks empathy, he's essentially up himself, etc.

[quote Igloo71]@Puffalicious As in, the system might change!!! Are you always so lacking in empathy and the circumstances of others?[/quote]
Why does this make me lack empathy? I come from a very working class family: first person to go to university and I paid for my education through 2/3 jobs throughout the 5 years and Student Loans payments for many years afterwards. In other words, what most students do. Why is your son any different? It's a service that needs to be paid for.

We have a Tory government, it will NOT change. There is also no push from the other parties to change this. The days of the 1980s when uni education was free are long gone. It's no coincidence that the numbers of students attending university have tripled since then as it's now a service you can choose. When it was free you really has to be top of the pile.

@PaulGallico

OP there are some very self important people on this thread. I think you may have hit a nerve with some of the people claiming to be academics. I hope your son makes a good choice of university and wish him all the best in the future.

Too right she’s hit a nerve. When you’re slagging off people who are giving up their Saturday for no extra pay for not coughing up for non-existent weekend childcare, that does tend to get people’s backs up. Nothing to do with being self-important, unless by “self-important”, you mean people pointing out facts to you.

Is this open day at the weekend?

I really can't see anything wing with a child being there.

Weird reason for not wanting to go to a uni for that reading alone.

Your son shouldn’t be basing his choice of university on the HoDs childcare issues. Suggest he looks at degree outcomes and NSS scores instead. Open days are on a weekend- they occur multiple times throughout the year- perhaps she’s a single parent? The suggestion that the students are used for childcare is ridiculous.

@PaulGallico

OP there are some very self important people on this thread. I think you may have hit a nerve with some of the people claiming to be academics. I hope your son makes a good choice of university and wish him all the best in the future.

Self-importance? Where?

@cherryonthecakes

You know that teachers in primary/secondary aren't paid extra for after school Clubs, Parents Evenings and overnight residentials right? They do it for free

Yup. I'm at a residential tomorrow.

The rights and wrongs of the child being there are something of a red herring. If your son doesn't feel the institution is right for him, he should explore other choices.

@Viviennemary

It does sound extremely unprofessional of the university to think this disruption is ok.

I think it’s quite unprofessional of universities to run open days on the basis that staff will donate their free time to run them, personally.

@Igloo71

I don't agree with insulting your DS, of course. (I didn't see the posts that did?)

But I also am not sure what your personal circumstances have to do with the situation at hand. And I remain surprised at your & DS lack of awareness around working practices for those in education.