Lecturer's child at open day for second time

[Igloo71]

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

She's between a rock and a hard place here. She's head of department so working all hours. I'm guessing the last thing she wants to do on her Saturday is work an open day but presumably there's an expectation that department heads attend.

If her partner was there before, chances are he's an academic at the same university and so also attending the event and the child has gone with the parent whose role is more child friendly - on a stand Vs giving a talk etc.

I'm a lecturer with two preschoolers and I wouldn't think of leaving them with a student in a million years. For starters I don't know who would be sufficiently responsible, but mainly it would be completely unprofessional of me to ask that of them.

Lastly, your son really needs to open his mind a little. Does he not see the difference between a Saturday open day and day to day teaching? Does he really think the lecturer will be bringing a three year old along to a seminar at 10am on a Tuesday? Reframe his thinking - is it not a good thing that the university acknowledges that staff have real lives and is flexible when staff agree to work weekends for free.

And yes - he is not a consumer.

It's not normal but, as PPs have said, this is additional voluntary work. I'm an academic and a single parent. Over the years I've had to bring DD in a few times because it was that or simply not go in. Mainly for meetings, once for a lecture. Fortunately it was the revision lecture with quiz, prizes etc. she was about 8 and helped hand out the sweets (prizes). She now has a rather unrealistic idea of University life . I think the question for your son is, does he want an Open Day organized to suit him on a Saturday?

This doesn’t tend to happen at our university, but yes, expectations for academics are currently insane where I work. Post-covid there’s an expectation that we should continue to deliver online open days as well as on-campus events, relentlessly, to ensure everyone can engage with the uni the way they want to. The pressure to recruit is substantial - and I’m at a top 10… In theory TOIL is available but academics are teaching, researching or servicing committees so there is no time to take it. It’s also particularly rough on lab technicians who regularly have to be on hand on Saturdays anyway. I’m in professional services so it’s not quite as bad, but I will need to find childcare for a fair few Saturdays this year and it’s not easy as a widowed parent (5 years on - most people have forgotten I’m still on my own).

Lack of childcare at an open day or applicant visit day should not factor into your son’s decision.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA 2015) students at Higher Education Institutions in the UK are legally classed as ‘consumers’.

I think so many positive comments were received at the start of lockdown at seeing a more “humane” version of the academic staff surrounded by the same problems everybody had, namely home educating, lack of childcare and also everyone getting to get to know each other pets.

After 2 years of these, I am fed up of having online meetings interrupted because the dog needs attention, the cat is spraying the screen and the bloody kids not being able to stop climbing on the parent in the middle of a meeting.

It is not cute and it is not professional, people who have not find a way to work around the needs of their kids or their pets after 2 years are really taking the mickey and other staff are picking up the work they should be doing.

That academic should let the husband and kids at home rather than bringing them in, it is disrespectful to the university visitors, make sure you provide feedback, it helps people that are making up for those individuals to ensure the problem can be acknowledged and resolved in due course.

Im a lecturer, I've had to do the same. Open days are often Saturdays, unpaid and we get beaten over the head with our admissions stats if we don't attend.

I'd take this as a teachable moment for your son to learn what 'professionalism' really is. Maybe read some feminist critique of work and the concept of the ideal worker?

I've done a few open days on a Saturday. I know one lecturer who has to bring her child but he sits upstairs and does his homework. He wouldn't be allowed to join in.

It is wrong to think of yourself as a consumer. My neighbour is a lecturer. He says he is no longer seen as a figure of authority. There is a genuine fear of cancellation and lack of being at ease with the students resulting in lecturers distancing themselves from the students. When I was at university, lecturers were approachable and we could chat with them outside of seminars or lectures. They were an oracle and source of information.

As for the woman and her child. We have no idea why the child was there. It could be that she genuinely has no alternative childcare, therefore actually attending at the weekend is showing a lot of commitment.

In fairness, the "consumer" term is probably my own rather than his, but he is self aware enough to recognise that his preference to go to uni is based on ambition and it being the "right" thing to do - he has said himself, he wants to support us both in the future - he is under ZERO expectation on my part to do this. To us, this is like paying for private school fees. He might not need to pay them back in the future - fingers crossed! But this is a massive commitment for us and we're nervous about it. We lived in a car for a week when he was young when I was unexpectedly made homeless. We are proud people who literally have bettered ourselves through education, which to some wouldn't be that great even now. Some of your comments are really helpful and insightful. Sadly some of them have also made me feel that this is all a huge mistake.

@CarrieHughes

You son is overreacting. He should make his final decision based on various factors, not a single incident.

However this woman was being very unprofessional and quite frankly sets the cause of women in the workplace back several years. What a waste of everyone else's hard work.

My own father had to bring me to work when I was younger, I was in a separate room, entertained. IF there was a another parent there why couldn't he have handled her?
I was also a very active and noisy kid.

Like it or not universities have become a business, and lower income families especially are sold a lie. It's not the 9K a year it's the sheer cost of everything else, like accommodation. Students are seen as cash cows and treated like shit. If the staff have an unprofessional attitude towards their job they'll be treated even worse.

Maybe the lecturer/HoD didn't have a woman to palm her child off on like your father did?

Working in secondary education, I've been well used to staff children coming along to the things where although it's unpaid, the level of commitment to the role and good of the student would be questioned and brought up in appraisals if the staff member didn't turn up.

Normally by the age of about 7, they've become mini helpers, handing out prospectuses, fetching things, passing messages and the like - it's how secondaries can do multiple events, as there's a small workforce of children who have been helping at events for as long as they can remember - Mum's work, Dad's work, Brownies, Cubs, Guides, Scouts, other charities - etc. They all start somewhere - usually coming along because there is nobody else to take them or, as is also very likely, the staff member cannot afford to literally pay to attend a thing for the benefit of the organisation.

… but I agree that most staff in universities (both support and academic stuff are feeling under a lot of pressure, I would dare to say that a lot of that pressure is led by marketing department demands, a stupid amount of red tape and higher expectations from students who seem to be expecting a bespoke university experience.

@grapewines

He's being very extreme. It's not ideal, but it doesn't mean it's a shit uni, or that the child is there day to day.

Maybe he should be a bit understanding about other people's circumstances not being ideal all the time.

This. Is your DS seriously going to dismiss a university based on the fact that a child was annoying during an open day? God, he needs to get a grip. What made him so self- important? The child won't be there during term-time every day: does he think this? He needs to grow up.

My DS is starting university this year, thank God his is mature and can see past what's happening beyond his own nose.

The fact you've said he's 'a consumer' says it all really.

A student paying a minimum of £27k, I would say that makes him a consumer. If you were spending this amount of money would you see yourself as a consumer?

The SLC (not him) is paying. The fee is for a service (teaching, facilities, lab techs, support staff, resources), not the degree. The fee is not for a product. I wish people wouldn't say they're paying for a degree. They're not.

@SimpleShootingWeekend

It’s near impossible to get childcare on a weekend and I don’t blame her to feel disinclined to pull some out of her arse in order to do extra work on top of her actual job. I had a lecturer who brought her baby to lectures. It was a baby in a car seat rather than a verbal pre schooler but it wasn’t ideal. More ideal (for us) that her module being cancelled while she took her mat leave though. If she had asked a student to look after him I think she would have been treated with blank looks. I think your ds’s reaction is OTT but a lot of young people have bought massively into the idea that they are customers and a “I pay your wages” mentality whereas undergrads used to very much understand that they were attending a research institution that did some undergraduate teaching, not a consumer experience.

Because universities used to focus on teaching, and graduating pretty much guaranteed a job. These days 'research universities' see undergrads as a hindrance. Management don't like them because they're less valuable than graduate students. Professors don't like them because they consider teaching a hindrance when they could be doing research (and quite frankly the best researchers aren't always the best teachers).

A lot of bright young people, going to uni for the love of their subject have had their hopes dashed by apathy. They weren't debating with subject matter experts, or getting research exposure, in fact it's so hard to even get a bloody office hour.

@Puffalicious my self important son. wow.

@SoupDragon

I think your DS's reaction is extreme. The uni was his top choice for a reason and this seems an odd thing to change that opinion on.

I don't think it was terribly professional for the child to be there but it's difficult to make a judgement without knowing the full circumstances.

This. The child won’t be turning up to lectures and seminars. I can’t imagine changing your mind about something as important as choice of university over something so trivial and superficial.

Weird it put your son off going to his first choice uni.

Maybe mum and dad work at the uni

Granted I went to uni almost 20years ago, but the head of faculty had his young daughter at the open day I attended. Whilst I was a student his children often made random appearances. Another of the lecturers had a baby whilst I was there and she brought her baby in now and again, and yes we did take the baby for a wall around campus now and again. No biggie. The relationship between lecturer and teacher is completely different.

It seems a bit ridiculous to be put off - if the child is always coming to lectures that would be rather different. (I once had to take my 8 year old to an exam invigilation I was doing when several back-up plans fell through. He caught someone cheating so it worked out quite well. )

He might not need to pay them back in the future - fingers crossed!

What does this mean? Are you encouraging him to work the system?

I have taken dc to open days. They are outside of contracted hours and I do not have to attend. I have NOT taken them to lectures. I’m sorry I feel your DC is being a tad precious.

It does sound extremely unprofessional of the university to think this disruption is ok.

Also OP if your son' going to university because he's ambitious, and wants a job, please make sure he knows what he's doing.
What he learns in uni, unless he wants to become an academic or is doing a specific subject is useless. How much time he spends at career fairs, and doing extracurriculars is of MORE importance.
'RG' is a self-styled term and unless it's somewhere actually prestigious like LSE, really doesn't make a difference.

I feel so sorry for all the young people who's CV's I review as part of corporate social responsibility. Good degrees, decent unis, stuck in admin jobs for 5+ years. By the time they cottoned on to the game it was too late.

@JustOneMoreStep

Granted I went to uni almost 20years ago, but the head of faculty had his young daughter at the open day I attended. Whilst I was a student his children often made random appearances. Another of the lecturers had a baby whilst I was there and she brought her baby in now and again, and yes we did take the baby for a wall around campus now and again. No biggie. The relationship between lecturer and teacher is completely different.

The issue isn't her being there. It's keeping her controlled.

@Puffalicious As in, the system might change!!! Are you always so lacking in empathy and the circumstances of others?