Lecturer's child at open day for second time

[Igloo71]

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

The lecturers should be professional if this was a school or FE it just would not be tolerated - I think it sends out the message that the prospective students are important enough. The whole way university students have been treated over the last two years shows that - and now strikes on top of that. They are paying £9000 per year for online tuition or lack of it - this is just another example of how they are not a priority for lecturers

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum.

I think your DS is unreasonably prejudiced.

I've just worked an extremely long week - I've done a full weeks teaching & admin, together with a series of research meetings on Californian time as part of running my research grant. I'm just about to go off to my university's open day to talk to offer holders.

I don't get a day off in lieu. I get to work all day tomorrow (Sunday) to catch up on marking that came in late because students are being given extensions willy-nilly.

So if this HoD has her child with her on a Saturday after doing around a 55 hour week (which is what I did when I've been an HoD) it may be one of the few times she can spend with her child. Or there's been a difficulty with child care - university nurseries close Friday at 6pm, usually.

Your DS needs to examine his priorities.

It's a shame some of you are unwilling to see that when I said I'd be forced to take the time off for childcare - that was unpaid when my DS was small. Unpaid!!

I'm sorry that happened to you but unfortunately you seem to think that because you had a bad experience, everyone else should too.

I live in Mexico and people used to be able to bring their children to work here.

The lecturer is trying to help new students and look after their child?
Why shouldn’t they be allowed to bring their child in on the weekend?
DS probably needs to get over himself in all honesty.

I don't think your son's circumstances are that unusual. A high proportion of students are from low income backgrounds. I fully understand the challenges that entails.
However, I think this would be a useful teaching moment. Instead of being too critical of the member of staff it might be useful to unpick why this member of staff has brought her child. There lots to discuss there about juggling a professional job with having a family.

@PaulGallico - I think you’re right. It has hit a raw nerve with me. I got an urgent request to ring a student this week and it was a non-academic matter. Think asking me where do their laundry. I re-directed them to our student support hub. Next day parent rung the VCs office to say that I should have sourced the information directly and the impact I had on the student’s mental health by not doing so. It was really fine because this is increasingly common - the marketisation of education, I guess.

My view is that it is extension to what has been happening in schools and FE for years on end. The difference is that a higher proportion of students (and their parents) are paying and so do bring a consumer perspective to a sector that cannot run effectively on those values. It’s really sad to be honest, for everybody.

I think it’s quite unprofessional of universities to run open days on the basis that staff will donate their free time to run them, personally.

Indeed. I don't have a Saturday free until Easter. And I don't get time off, or overtime (my administration colleagues do, but not the lecturers).

@Suprima

I think your son’s reaction is extreme and lacks empathy tbh

Very weird - he will never see this child again and it’s likely he’ll have very little contact with this lecturer as he will have other commitments

This.

I would be far more concerned about the fact that I had raised a child with such a complete lack of empathy and awareness of the struggles that working parents might face than this lecturer’s childcare issues.

It's an open day, not lectures for heavens sake! Never mind thinking it's great that the uni has a woman, and a mother to boot, in a senior role, you think this shows it's a BAD choice? No wonder women are still looked on as second class

Your son's reaction seams a little weird tbh. He won't go to a uni because a teacher had their child there?that's bizarre...he is going to encounter children all his life🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote Igloo71]@Puffalicious As in, the system might change!!! Are you always so lacking in empathy and the circumstances of others?[/quote]
Don’t hold your breath, nothing’s going to change. Some mature students will soon be repaying their loans until they reach pension age.

Don’t worry about your son, when he’s a student he will be the available childcare for lecturers in Saturday mornings (according to your assumptions) so he will have plenty of opportunities (there are lots if open days each year) to develop empathy etc.

Again, what have your personal circumstances got to do with it? There are millions of students who come from working class backgrounds. I work in a school where the kids' backgrounds would haunt you, including extreme poverty, but some of these kids get superb results and attend university with the understanding that they pay their education back. Why is your son any different?

I echo pps points about this and I also think this is a very good opportunity for your son to learn to be aware and understanding of other people's circumstances more. He sounds like a good kid and very protective of you 🙂

I also think this puts the university in a good light? It supports working parents? Who knows this lecturers circumstances but the uni is supporting them

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice
You speak to your son how you want but if Immine started to throw his dummy out like this I'd be telling him to grow the hell up and stop being intolerant and get a grip. I'd agree it's not perfect but seriously? He adamant hea not going? Are you sure hes cut our for uni if he struggles with this.

I think your sons reaction is very extreme and to me with this mindset, he is going to face loads of inconvenient surprises in all areas of life. This child isn't going to be in his lectures. To me it shows how dedicated this lecturer is despite not being able to find childcare and bringing a child to the event on the weekend and still trying to do the job. Is it ideal? No. Would it make me reconsider my top choice of university? Hell no!

@twelly

The lecturers should be professional if this was a school or FE it just would not be tolerated - I think it sends out the message that the prospective students are important enough. The whole way university students have been treated over the last two years shows that - and now strikes on top of that. They are paying £9000 per year for online tuition or lack of it - this is just another example of how they are not a priority for lecturers

I disagree. The fact the member of staff has come into work in a Saturday (which will be unpaid and in addition to her contracted hours) and has brought her child with her when I'm sure they would both rather be doing something more fun, actually shows how dedicated to her job she is.

I’ve been to uni twice and my daughter is there now. I’m a teacher and understand the difficulties faced by lecturers as working in education is hard. However to those people giving the OP a hard time for saying her son is a consumer need to think about the model being ‘sold’ to most students right now.

I don’t think consumer is too far from the truth. Lots of people pay what is a to them a huge amount of money for a degree. The institution needs to be right and if the lecturers are making him feel that they won’t have time for him then I don’t think he’s being unreasonable to want to go elsewhere with his money. Traditional institutions do not equal great universities. If he is going to get good grades then he needs to use that to his advantage to ‘buy’ into a university that is going for give him the best chance for his money. I don’t think that’s unreasonable, it’s smart and shows he wants the best for his education. It’s frankly not his problem what his lecturers childcare issues are just like it wouldn’t be any of my students problem either.

I pay a huge amount of student loan every month and I probably won’t be able to pay it off. I love my career and I’m glad I went to uni, but being sensible with the loan you are getting is not unreasonable or arrogant it’s part of weighing up the pros and cons of going to uni.

I hope your son makes the choice that is right for him @Igloo71. Your son sounds like he has faced lots of his own difficulties and just wants to make the right choice to secure his future to me.

so lecturers attend open days/offer holder days out of good will?

Yes.

I do a lot out of "good will" - I generally work a 45-50 hour week during term time, so, you know, 10 hours a week "good will". Then every Saturday from now until Easter.

I would find this unprofessional too - the disruption rather than the child being there and it would put me off.
Open days and applicant days are to engage and impress prospective students - so the PP saying the son is one of a number is missing the point spectacularly! Without applicants and students then the academic courses would be pulled and the lecturers wouldn't have a job.
I work in university recruitment and WP so completely understand your worries about the financial side of university, but please do not let that put him off. As a PP said, make sure he works on employability skills during his course to prepare for leaving uni.
I also appreciate the pressure faced by academics, but it isn't unique to them - either in HE or in the working world in general.
I hope your son makes the best decision for him. He would have contact with a wide range of lecturers at university and may not actually every be taught by this woman, depending on his modules.
Also do get him to feedback, as this may help resolve the issue for the academic herself going forward.

Not just universities. I’m a secondary teacher and I’ll be doing another open day for free next week (not in UK). All our science teachers have refused, in line with their contracts, so there’ll be no science representation. Every other department thinks that looks shit and they should just bring their kids. Two years ago the head asked DH and I to both attend, so all three of our children were there, aged 3 to 9. I’ve also been asked to bring my ill child in and teach when there was no one to replace me. Staffing is at the absolute minimum, there’s no slack at all.

At university I also had a lecturer who returned early from mat leave with the baby in tow. Twice in my 4 years. We occasionally helped her out and took them off for a stroll, but relationships between staff and students were different then. Probably because we weren’t consumers.

It's a huge over-reaction, he's very unlikely to have weekend courses, so it's unclear why he would be impacted further. It isn't reasonable for someone to be expected pay childcare costs to work for free on their day off, the uni need to negotiate and agree to pay up or take the compromises. People with children in all fields of life have to make compromises to deal with the conflicting needs of work and their child. Many companies these days have some balance; they get more out of employees that way. He may need to consider why his response is so extreme before he's confronted with real life, so he doesn't mess up with inappropriate comments in working life.

@Mummyoflittledragon

It is wrong to think of yourself as a consumer. My neighbour is a lecturer. He says he is no longer seen as a figure of authority. There is a genuine fear of cancellation and lack of being at ease with the students resulting in lecturers distancing themselves from the students. When I was at university, lecturers were approachable and we could chat with them outside of seminars or lectures. They were an oracle and source of information.

As for the woman and her child. We have no idea why the child was there. It could be that she genuinely has no alternative childcare, therefore actually attending at the weekend is showing a lot of commitment.

You are most definitely a consumer in exactly the same way you would be if you were buying sports equipment or a joining WeightWatchers. While paying your money may not guarantee a degree/fitness/weight loss, you are entitled to be provided with the tools and support to help you succeed. That is what you are paying for, and the university is accountable for providing an agreed level of service which is monitored quite intensively for module/course quality of teaching and assessment, resources, etc. Universities market heavily to students and open days are part of that strategy. Where staff are not paid, they are entitled to take a day in lieu. They’re not doing it as volunteers from the goodness of their hearts. So the session your DS attended was part of their marketing plan for that course. Having the child making frequent interruptions was clearly (and not unnaturally) irritating for your DS and no doubt others in the room who were to learn about what they would be studying and should not have happened. I’m not surprised that this has given the impression that the Uni is less professional and less well organised than he would have liked, and if it puts him off then it puts him off. I have zero problem with a member of staff or a student bringing in a child to class, but they are well behaved and cause minimal disruption. They should not become a distraction to the session and if the academic was unwilling or unable to manage her child appropriately then the child should not be there. The last thing the university wants is to put people off.