Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

Presumably seminars and lab work and smaller group settings will be face to face

My daughter will be back at uni following an internship year. I expect testing will open things up more. She is expecting things to be getting back to normal but will probably be happy if the pubs are open

@Ellewoods20

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

Really, how can they know that already ? Which ones ?

I don’t think lectures to hundreds of students are a particularly good way to teach anyway. They’re too big for useful interaction. Most are recorded and made available online for accessibility reasons anyway.

However I’d be very disappointed if seminars and tutorials weren’t face to face. And some of the smaller lectures in the final year(s).

Inanun University of Leeds and Manchester Metropolitan University

@Ellewoods20, has there been a new statement from Leeds?

One of my sons is planning to firm a Leeds offer very soon and we've been trying unsuccessfully to find any information on their 2021-22 plans.

Would probably not be overly worried if everything else is face to face, but don't know why they'd choose to make this decision so early.

@LoonvanBoon nothing widely published yet but students have received emails. More practical courses have some smaller classes on campus already. Not sure if that includes film studies as I don’t know exactly what the degree entails

I would turn it round and say "What is the point in packing 250 people into one room, when the same content can be delivered on-line?"

Whereas students have missed out on so much of usual University life this last 14 months, I actually don't think sitting in a packed lecture hall is something that has been missed. Many, many students prefer the big lectures on-line.
Seminars, practicals, tutorials - all completely different. I'm sure most students can't wait for the social side to open up, the societies and sports, the coffee bars, and workspaces, and small group spaces.

I was a mature (23!) student and lived out. I only met people on my course, so I would have been pretty lonely if there was no face to face teaching, @BackforGood.

Why do people assume that lectures online means no face to face teaching? It could mean space and time freed up for extra seminars and labs etc.

Overall, a better experience, not worse.

I think it’s utterly pathetic that universities are inventing their own covid rules that go above and beyond what is demanded by the government.

If some people prefer to watch online, then why not have live lectures that are also recorded?

Some students have found online lectures much harder to cope with, and making everything online also means that opportunities for casual social interaction with peers are further reduced.

I find the ultra-cautious/CBA attitude of some universities utterly depressing.

@TheSmallAssassin That isn't what we are talking about though.
See Changi ' s post.

It would be good to know which unis are planning face to face lectures.

I know i would have hated online lectures.

This is what Leeds are saying:

We are committed to providing an active and inclusive approach to learning in 2021-22 to give our students a high-quality research-based education. Our plan is that students will learn through a blended mode which means participating in both online learning and face to face activity using campus facilities (where this is the usual expectation of their programme). Co-curricular and extra-curricular activities will be provided where possible.

That does NOT mean all teaching online. It likely means the very large lectures will be online but this is a fraction of the total student experience.

Please don't tell your children 'there's no point' going to university when most of the social side will be restored, their small group teaching will be in person, and it's just the large lectures that will be online (which most kids watch online instead of in person anyways even before covid).

@ElMacchiato

It would be good to know which unis are planning face to face lectures.

I know i would have hated online lectures.

Are you talking about lectures (large groups) or seminars (small groups)?

Universities that have brought in lecture capture (where the large lectures are recorded and provided online) have seen fairly large drops in attendance -- sometimes only 10-20% of students bother to come in person.

Seminars are still very popular though, because it's more of a discussion and students can talk more themselves.

So the priority is definitely to have face to face for seminars -- that's what students want the most. They definitely seem less bothered about the huge lectures being online.

Both really. If seminars are provided then good. Students really need the chance to ask questions and discuss things. And meet fellow course mates!

Dreaming it’s different for different courses. Some have on seminars so are fully online(or one per semester)

@PantTwizzler

I think it’s utterly pathetic that universities are inventing their own covid rules that go above and beyond what is demanded by the government.

If some people prefer to watch online, then why not have live lectures that are also recorded?

Some students have found online lectures much harder to cope with, and making everything online also means that opportunities for casual social interaction with peers are further reduced.

I find the ultra-cautious/CBA attitude of some universities utterly depressing.

I fully agree. Unis could have done a lot more within the restrictions but CHOSE not to. Most of my son's lecturers havn't been on campus for over a year. He's only had 2 F2F tutorials, both given by PHD students, not staff/lecturers. At his Uni, there are entire buildings which have remained locked and bolted all year. I fully understand social distancing for both staff and students and that drastically reduced person to person activities were obviously needed whilst restrictions were in place, but for staff/lecturers not to even be on campus, not even on a rota or occasional basis, is crazy. I hope that there's a massive outcry against the Unis who are planning not to return to "normal" this Autumn. Yes, I'm sure there are "some" students who prefer online/remote, but the vast majority don't want to be stuck in their tiny flats for several hours per day staring at a screen. Recording/streaming of lectures is a good compromise for students who don't/can't attend them in person. If there isn't a significant amount of F2F, just what is point of moving/living near the campus - you may as well stay at home. Uni's won't be pleased when they can't rent out their accommodation!!

@ElMacchiato

Both really. If seminars are provided then good. Students really need the chance to ask questions and discuss things. And meet fellow course mates!

Only if the lecturers are the ones doing them. No excuse for lecturers continuing to work from home.

@dreamingbohemian So the priority is definitely to have face to face for seminars -- that's what students want the most. They definitely seem less bothered about the huge lectures being online.

Has there been proper research and student's surveyed in a properly organised/managed questionnaire for that assertion?

@ElMacchiato

It would be good to know which unis are planning face to face lectures.

I know i would have hated online lectures.

Indeed. I hope that students and prospective students put pressure on Unis to be fully honest and transparent about their plans so they can make informed decisions about which Uni to attend and whether to pay for accommodation to live there as opposed to staying at home. Sadly, such honestly was grossly lacking last Summer when Unis promised things they knew they weren't going to deliver, i.e. promising "blended" learning when they'd already told their lecturers not to return to campus!

@Ellewoods20

Dreaming it’s different for different courses. Some have on seminars so are fully online(or one per semester)

If a course is purely large lectures, with no seminars, then yes I would be hesitant to attend it this coming year. But I would be hesitant about that course anyway, as others have said it's the seminars and discussions that are the most interesting.

Have these unis asked the students what they would like about sept lectures?

informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year

We'll probably still need to be planning around COVID security & safety. Large lectures may not be particularly safe, especially for vulnerable students & staff. Many university lecture theatres are old, crowded, and badly ventilated.

And feedback from this year suggests that students like the flexibility of an online lecture, watchable when & where they choose, in preparation for in-person seminars, tutorials, labs & workshops.

[quote user1497207191]**@dreamingbohemian* So the priority is definitely to have face to face for seminars -- that's what students want the most. They definitely seem less bothered about the huge lectures being online.*

Has there been proper research and student's surveyed in a properly organised/managed questionnaire for that assertion?[/quote]
In my department we have done a massive amount of engagement with students all year -- surveys, focus groups, regular meetings with student reps, you name it. The overwhelming message is that they want the social side of things to reopen and they want f2f seminars/discussions. That is what will happen in September.

When we ask about large lectures online, there is a small minority that is unhappy about this and the rest are split between people who prefer online and people who are not bothered either way.

Our plan is to have large lectures online in Term 1 and hopefully f2f in Term 2. Believe me, we are all desperate to get back to f2f.

The problem is that all the arrangements for September need to be done now and the government has still not said for sure what restrictions might be in place then. If we still have to have social distancing (which has not been decided for sure) then large lectures will be almost impossible. So universities are being cautious for Term 1 at least.

My university has 30,000 students across 300 courses and 5 campuses. It's very difficult to make quick and last-minute decisions, so people are being cautious. Universities made a lot of bad decisions last year under pressure and no one wants to do that again.