Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

[Needmoresleep]

Perhaps, though it is a common problem and it did seem more difficult in groups where people had never met each other, and were in different countries. At least with F2F there is an agreed meeting place so you know who does not show up.

I am genuinely interested in how academics on this thread manage group projects on line. One project had a mark for the group project with deductions/additions based on peer appraisals. On another the poor student in Asia was expected to ‘attend’ at 4.00am, in part because they also had to accommodate someone in Canada.

[chopc]

I hope universities acknowledge how isolated some students have felt this year. I maintain the social experience of Uni is as important as the educational one. Lectures were how students get the opportunity to meet their peers. The chats and coffees before and after. Repeat meetings leads to friendships etc. What do Unis propose to have in place so that students have the opportunity to meet others on their course? Small group teachings means they will only meet a few .....

[Kazzyhoward]

@Needmoresleep

Perhaps, though it is a common problem and it did seem more difficult in groups where people had never met each other, and were in different countries. At least with F2F there is an agreed meeting place so you know who does not show up.

I am genuinely interested in how academics on this thread manage group projects on line. One project had a mark for the group project with deductions/additions based on peer appraisals. On another the poor student in Asia was expected to ‘attend’ at 4.00am, in part because they also had to accommodate someone in Canada.

The academics will be along shortly to say how interacting with people in different time zones is a good skill to learn for their future!

[chocolateorangeinhaler]

What's the point? To get a degree at the end of it I would say. On line delivery is great. It gives so many more people access that had barriers to the uni system before.

[Needmoresleep]

Kazzy, not just time zones, but general managing relationships with people you haven't met, with different backgrounds and skill sets and with whom you have a limited time to deliver something.

DDs groups managed, but the easiest was the one where the core group were already friends and so were quickly able to organise themselves.

There was a lot of learning...which is not a bad thing. And I assume learning for the University/academics. I just wondered what academics think they learned.

[MarchingFrogs]

Perhaps the universities should be making more of how their blended offer is in line with peer-reviewed research on best pedagogical practice (see footnote) and that the strictures enforced upon them by the pandemic have given them both the impetus and the opportunity to implement this properly. The phrase 'meets student expectations' in UoB's 'back to normal' Plan E is a bit unfortunate, though. Surely should have been, 'provides what students misguidedly think that they want'?

I am intrigued by the issue of lecturers being able to refuse to employ lecture capture (in normal times) for reasons of protecting their intellectual property. How have they been convinced to engage with the online provision involved in the new blended approach?

[JunoTurner]

Perhaps, though it is a common problem and it did seem more difficult in groups where people had never met each other, and were in different countries. At least with F2F there is an agreed meeting place so you know who does not show up.

A common problem for all students everywhere who are doing online group projects at different universities, or a common problem for your DD?

As for knowing who turned up, I’m a bit perplexed by that statement of yours too. Have you done Zoom or Microsoft Teams meetings yourself? If you have you’ll know that it says who is present. Not necessarily by identifiable names but you know the number of people there. I can’t see how your DD wouldn’t know this or have the gumption to not to ask who user X is. There surely can’t be a huge number of people in a peer group project.

[Etulosba]

I am genuinely interested in how academics on this thread manage group projects on line. One project had a mark for the group project with deductions/additions based on peer appraisals. On another the poor student in Asia was expected to ‘attend’ at 4.00am, in part because they also had to accommodate someone in Canada.

By checking where the members of the group are located at the start and organising group membership and meeting times to make sure nobody is joining in the middle of the night.

I am doing group work f2f at the moment (at one of those awful RG unis) with absent members participating via Teams. By scheduling the sessions appropriately it has been possible to cope with +8 time zones. -8 would be harder, but I haven't got that problem.

[HelloMissus]

It will be interesting to see how this affects the perceived popularity amongst applicants going forward.
Which in turn affects revenue.
And lack of footfall on campus will certainly reduce revenue in the long run - universities will struggle to rent properties to franchises if they don’t have the footfall. They already factor in quiet periods during holidays, but that’s because they’re ensured HUGE footfall at other times.

It’ll be interesting.

[looptheloopinahulahoop]

I do think the universities need to be honest about their plans. If there's not going to be any/much F2F teaching then there isn't any point prosepective students going a long way from home for a student experience and sitting in a room that they've paid thousands for. If you know it's all going to be online, you may as well go to a commutable university, live at home and go in when you have to.

My ds is likely to firm a uni 4 hours from home and insure one 1 hour from home. But if we really thought next academic year was going to be a rerun of this year, there would be zero point going to the uni 4 hours away.

Prospective students need to know NOW - the UCAS deadline is 10th June!

[IntoAir]

How many times ...?

We just don't know.

At my place, we are planning to be in person, except (probably) for some large lectures - a mix of concerns about COVID safety and also that a lot of students have really liked the option of online lectures, available at whatever time they prefer rather than 8:30am or 7pm (and yes, I've taught at both those times because of difficulties of accommodating a large group in an appropriate space). My students cheered when I told them I'd swapped a 2 hour lecture session from an 8:30 for a 5:30pm slot (although it was tiring & inconvenient for me).

We do know that the UK PM 's most recent announcement was to shed some doubt on the absolute firmness of the 21st June date. We are in the hands of a government which doesn't know what it's doing, and for whom HE is a very low priority.

[DelBocaVista]

Prospective students need to know NOW - the UCAS deadline is 10th June!

We can only tell you what we hope will happen but we can't say for sure.
We are planning to be back to normal but with some courses opting for a blended approach as it is most appropriate for their subject/students. However, that is relying on all restrictions being lifted in June. If we have to do any kind of social distancing then that changes things dramatically.

[Xenia]

I have a special issue. My twins are registered for London for their Sept course. the fees are £4000 m ore than Leeds - same institution. if Leeds and London will be 100% on line I can save myself £4k x 2 = £8000 - a lot of money even for me if they register for Leeds instead. If it is not online given they live at home in London then I will pay the extra £8k. I would like to know by the summer however as if there will be no in person teaching why would anyone register for London not Leeds?

[dreamingbohemian]

Xenia I would say the only way there would be no in person teaching at a London uni would be if there is a proper third wave and universities are not allowed to teach f2f again, like this past year. And if that happens, it will be the case for all universities, in Leeds as well. So the question is, why would you go sit in halls in Leeds and be totally online when you could at least be living at home and doing it.

Also while this year might still be a bit transitional, because we still don't know for sure what government policy will be in September, hopefully for their Years 2 and 3 there will be no more issues. So think long-term.

I have yet to see any university saying they will be totally online in September. The question is more what proportion will be online and that will vary a lot.

[LoonvanBoon]

This issue is being discussed now on 'You and Yours' on radio 4 - it started at about 12.50pm for anyone wanting to catch up later.

[KingscoteStaff]

Link to You and Yours piece.

[boys3]

DS2 (in second year, humanities subject) had face to face restart this week.

I'm not going to join the generalisations in many ways this thread has been reminiscent of the old GS threads, once they and the endless RG ones, are both fully resumed we'll know normality has returned but for DS2's Uni, and perhaps more specifically his faculty, I'm not really sure quite what more the staff, be they academic or other, could have realistically done.

[Xenia]

dreaming their one year post grad course this academic year has been 100% online. They have not met a single person on their courses and the course is now finished - exam results awaited. So there is a vryr good chance this academic year will be 100% online particularly as that makes their institution a lot more money (more students, no buildings or at least no staff in buildings, no heating in buildings etc etc).

My point about Leeds is they would live at home with me here in London but be registered for the £4k cheaper Leeds course if it is 100% online and do that same course as the London one and save me £8k, They would not rent property in Leeds (as I did for one of them for £7k in Bristol this academic year for the 100% online course)

We cannot take the risk even if it is a 20% chance, that the course will be in person, so will not register for Leeds but I just hope they get £8000 worth of London real experience and classes in a class room, meeting other students etc week in week out as their older sisters did on the same Legal practice course in pre covid times. (by the way another institution offering the same professional courses has had a fair bit of face to face lectures this academic year including some this week)

[Kazzyhoward]

If Unis aren't going back to how things were pre covid, then at least they should get their act together with their online systems. Bristol have had problems today with their online exam system crashing. It's really just not good enough.

thetab.com/uk/bristol/2021/05/24/bristol-uni-students-unable-to-take-final-year-exams-as-online-university-goes-offline-46256

[mumsneedwine]

@Kazzyhoward yup. Mine was caught up in that too. Lots of v upset and angry students tonight. Exams cancelled, started late with little warning and just utter chaos. Told her she needs to appeal if been disadvantaged- can not believe they are expecting the same standard when students have not met a member of staff in person to ask questions.

[MarchingFrogs]

As an additional feature of the course, some of the content will be delivered wholly online to give flexibility and to develop personal responsibility in your studies.

So that's how Warwick are selling it (on their new BSc Health and Medical Sciences course, not at all what I had gone to the Warwick site for, but I am easily sidetracked...).

[mumsneedwine]

Ah so it's for their own good now. Well that's a new one.
Am v sure some Unis will be rethinking on line after the fiasco of exams. And one Uni has now acknowledged that some of their on line delivery was so rubbish they have re-recorded one section. Nothing to worry about - it's only for the next generation of doctors.

[IrmaFayLear]

I see that the Telegraph today has an article on how students have been shafted. It mentions the online business and how provision varies considerably.

It also talks about the "soft losses" of students: the friends they never get to make, or the partner, or the interests etc.

I think it's particularly hard for geeky or shyer students. The outgoing will always find friends and social opportunities, but the awkward ones, not so much, and university is a chance for them to find likeminded compatriots.