Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

And Uni saying it will be 6 hours in person teaching max next year - she should have over30

Out of interest, what degree is she doing?

Next year will not be like this year!

Unless your children are on a course where every single hour of teaching is in 100+ person lectures, they WILL have f2f teaching next year.

There will be f2f seminars, discussions, practicals, labs.

Libraries will be open, social activities will resume, bars will be open.

It will be pretty much normal in every way except that large lectures will be online. The large lectures that even pre-covid, many students stopped attending because they preferred to watch online.

And hopefully we will even have large lectures back in Term 2.

Is this scenario really so dreadful? It will be a million times better than this past year.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista DD was told tonight it will be 6 hours max. For a course with over 30 teaching hours a week. She is so upset as was looking forward to actually being at Uni rather than just a visitor every now and then. There is no excuse. Everywhere else returning to normal, just Unis that are a special case. It's shit. [/quote]
Have they given a reason?

And you do know it's not all universities......

I'm planning a full return from September and my DHs uni is already back!

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@PantTwizzler* I think it’s utterly pathetic that universities are inventing their own covid rules that go above and beyond what is demanded by the government.*
Absolutely how dare they care more about saving lives and preventing long term health issues than Boris et al. Utter scum.[/quote]
It's easy for people who earn full pay hiding behind their sofas. Lots of people have had to get on with it by following the rules, nothing more, nothing less, otherwise they don't get paid.

@dreamingbohemian And hopefully we will even have large lectures back in Term 2.

Why? How does your crystal ball say that covid and restrictions will be lower next January than it will be in September?

I think the suspicion is that "normal in January" will be just another lie from some Unis to get students to commit to contracts etc. Some Unis did that last Summer and their lies won't easily be forgotten.

@Badbadbunny I've been in school in crowded classrooms and no windows. Not sure I have hidden much since Sept. 3 colleagues have died.

@changi Uni have said it's for all subjects. But mine is doing vet med so would usually be in Uni full time. I hope they change their minds as students are demoralised tonight. Some talking about failing on purpose so they can repeat the year as at least then get some chance of the practical work they've missed this year.

Dd has decided to leave after this year, her first. I’m so sad for her but can’t say I blame her. She hasn’t physically met one person on her course. It has been an absolute shambles for our kids.

@DelBocaVista

People are making some incorrect assumptions on this thread but I guess it has been a week or so since the last HE bashing thread so we were due another and some people won't let the truth get in the way of that!!!

HE staff are not pushing for less contact with students

Blended learning does not mean everything online and Zero f2f, in person contact

I know for a fact that one university named early on on this thread is already back to in person delivery (more so than most unis) and has no plans to go fully online in September unless told to by the government- so yet more misinformation

Oh, and students aren't customers

Of course students ARE customers. They're paying for a service. Unis are falling over themselves to attract students. Whether you like it or not, it's now a commercial market, very similar to a business. The days of it being a "put up and shut up" public sector service went when Blair introduced tuition fees and ramped up the number of people going to Uni. Students paying £45k for a degree expect a hell of a lot better "service" than students who got it free a couple of decades ago.

@Badbadbunny It's easy for people who earn full pay hiding behind their sofas. Lots of people have had to get on with it by following the rules, nothing more, nothing less, otherwise they don't get paid
I am disabled and unable to work , I earn nothing unless you count carers allowance for my disabled child.
My eldest daughter is at uni, yes she would rather things weren’t the way they are, but she is mature enough to realise there are more important things than her social life.

Students paying £45k for a degree expect a hell of a lot better "service" than students who got it free a couple of decades ago.

Students aren't paying for a degree. They're paying to study for a degree. There is a difference.
If they don't think they're getting what they've been promised then they should complain or vote with their feet.

@DelBocaVista they are. But why should they drop out because grown ups can't do their jobs ? It does feel like Unis don't care about our kids, even if this isn't true. It seems they want to keep on line as much as they can, even if COVID disappears. It seems they don't want to make up for any of the lost learning this year. It seems that our kids are totally forgotten and there needs really don't matter, because on line suits staff. If this is wrong then staff need to fight for in person.
Mind is so upset I'm now going up on Saturday. Her Uni had another suicide this week. This generation have been treated like crap. DD doesn't know how she is supposed to learn properly when she has never met the staff. How sad.

My son hasn't met a single person on his course (which is now over) this academic year. Now it is a post grad law course but when his sisters did it they made loads of friends for life, were constantly 4 days a week out all day in London at the lectures, group sessions, seminars. This year the fee is the same but none of that is available.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista they are. But why should they drop out because grown ups can't do their jobs ? It does feel like Unis don't care about our kids, even if this isn't true. It seems they want to keep on line as much as they can, even if COVID disappears. It seems they don't want to make up for any of the lost learning this year. It seems that our kids are totally forgotten and there needs really don't matter, because on line suits staff. If this is wrong then staff need to fight for in person.
Mind is so upset I'm now going up on Saturday. Her Uni had another suicide this week. This generation have been treated like crap. DD doesn't know how she is supposed to learn properly when she has never met the staff. How sad.[/quote]
Again with the generalisations.

I'm a university academic and this has been the toughest year of my career. I have literally never worked so hard making sure my students are supported both academically and pastorally. I'm working 60+ hours a week and had large chunks of time where I was also homeschooling a young child. I haven't had a proper break since Christmas 2019.
I'm broken, I'm ill and yet I'm still plodding in because I care about my students.

So you can do one with your 'University staff don't care' because we do. Most of us have done the best we can in awful circumstances.

If your daughter is unhappy then the complaints procedure is pretty clear.

@DelBocaVista sorry but students are being treated appallingly, however hard staff have worked. From September it should be back to normal like everywhere else but it's not going to be. It's going to be more lonely depressing on line shit. If staff cared then things would return to normal, they'll be vaccinated as will students. Too many excuses being made and I'm not sure people realise how awful this year has been for 18 year olds, ripped out of school and lied to when signing up for Unis. Our kids deserve their lives back as per previous Uni generations. Not some half arsed on line attempt. If that's as good as in person why did school rush back ??

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@PantTwizzler* I think it’s utterly pathetic that universities are inventing their own covid rules that go above and beyond what is demanded by the government.*
Absolutely how dare they care more about saving lives and preventing long term health issues than Boris et al. Utter scum.[/quote]
Why do you think universities know better than Public Health officials?
What a babyish, defensive response.
I’m very much concerned for everyone’s health. Including mental health. I’ve followed every rule, as have my DC. I don’t want extra rules now in excess of what the law states.

My university was already making a move to blended learning before Covid hit. Many others were on the same path because the research supports blended learning as an effective way of studying. So all Covid has done is made it happen quicker.

As many have already said blended does not mean no f2f but is about using the right approaches to get the maximum learning. Content delivery is not best done in a big room with loads of other students listening to a lecturer talking for ages. Content can be effectively delivered online and in an easier to way for the student to learn e.g. smaller chunks, being able to pause, replay etc. This also helps students who do not speak English as a first language, who have some learning difficulties or who are neuro-diverse. This then means that f2f time can be used doing collaborative work (so mixing with other students), practical work and discussions. All these build on the subject content delivered online. In my modules students will be getting the same amount of f2f time but we will be using it even better to get into those higher level activities that HE is supposed to be about.

We are timetabling now for September so having to make decisions now.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista sorry but students are being treated appallingly, however hard staff have worked. From September it should be back to normal like everywhere else but it's not going to be. It's going to be more lonely depressing on line shit. If staff cared then things would return to normal, they'll be vaccinated as will students. Too many excuses being made and I'm not sure people realise how awful this year has been for 18 year olds, ripped out of school and lied to when signing up for Unis. Our kids deserve their lives back as per previous Uni generations. Not some half arsed on line attempt. If that's as good as in person why did school rush back ??
[/quote]
Firstly, do you think academics get a say in how the university's run? Individual academics aren't making these decisions and every academic I know is dying to be back on campus .

Secondly, while there will be some academics who have chosen an easy life this last year but those are the minority. The vast majority of us have gone above and beyond but we've had to work within the restrictions placed upon us. To say we don't care is pretty fucking insulting.
We received our feedback from student surveys this week and it seems the vast majority of our students agree. They appreciate what we've done in very difficult circumstances.

I literally could not have done more.

I know you're unhappy with your daughters experience but please don't taint all universities and all university staff with the same brush. It's grossly unfair.

I know #bekind has been a tad overused but bear in mind many of us are on the edge physically and mentally. Focus your wrath at the government and in some cases senior leaders at universities but not the academics.

@DelBocaVista my wrath is totally directed at them. I have said I'm sure Uni staff have worked v hard & you sound lovely, but I'm afraid not all your colleagues seem to care as much.
The excuses about COVID restrictions don't make sense from Sept. so why are staff not up in arms fighting to get the students back in ? I don't get why staff are not complaining too. 6 hours a week is rubbish.
On line is not as good as in person. We are humans and we need interaction with others. And being in line all day is bad for our eyes - why we don't let our kids do it. Until they go to Uni it seems and then they can be on them 9-5.
Just let our kids get their lives back to some kind of normal.

@ShroomShroom

My university was already making a move to blended learning before Covid hit. Many others were on the same path because the research supports blended learning as an effective way of studying. So all Covid has done is made it happen quicker.

As many have already said blended does not mean no f2f but is about using the right approaches to get the maximum learning. Content delivery is not best done in a big room with loads of other students listening to a lecturer talking for ages. Content can be effectively delivered online and in an easier to way for the student to learn e.g. smaller chunks, being able to pause, replay etc. This also helps students who do not speak English as a first language, who have some learning difficulties or who are neuro-diverse. This then means that f2f time can be used doing collaborative work (so mixing with other students), practical work and discussions. All these build on the subject content delivered online. In my modules students will be getting the same amount of f2f time but we will be using it even better to get into those higher level activities that HE is supposed to be about.

We are timetabling now for September so having to make decisions now.

That's all fine, BUT, the Unis should be honest and open about how much F2F, whether lectures are online or not, etc., so that prospective students can choose a Uni suited to the student's preference. As it is, it sounds as if Unis are forcing "blended learning" onto students without giving them the full picture. We went to numerous Uni open days over the past 2/3 years with our son and whilst every single one said that lectures were recorded and could be replayed back at a later date, none said that lectures wouldn't be in lecture theatres. We didn't hear a single case of "lectures" being online only at any of the Unis we visited. From what you say, if it has been the plan to introduce online only lectures, then, again, Unis havn't been honest and transparent about their plan.

but I'm afraid not all your colleagues seem to care as much.

I can't speak for all universities but my colleagues and those at universities I work closely with do care immensely.

The excuses about COVID restrictions don't make sense from Sept. so why are staff not up in arms fighting to get the students back in ? I don't get why staff are not complaining too. 6 hours a week is rubbish.

You're assuming all universities are doing this when it's simply not true. For most of our courses we anticipate being on campus as much as we possibly can unless it works better online because some stuff actually does!

On line is not as good as in person

It can be. And I know you are refusing to believe it but some people prefer it! Once we moved online my enquiries quadrupled - we ended up putting on a January start which will always be online. We will continue with a blended option for September starts because that is what my students want. It also prepares them for the world of work - my profession is likely to keep a large amount of online delivery so it makes sense to prepare the students for that.
I 100% would prefer to be back on campus teaching all my content in person but that not what my students want.

We are humans and we need interaction with others. And being in line all day is bad for our eyes - why we don't let our kids do it. Until they go to Uni it seems and then they can be on them 9-5.
Just let our kids get their lives back to some kind of normal.

Not all courses require students to be online 9-5..... but I do think there should be a large proportion of on campus delivery especially for UG courses. Hopefully there will be.

Looks like our kids will go through Uni never having set foot in the nice shiny lecture theatres they showed us on open days. What are they going to be used for ? Expensive conferences maybe.
Looks like British Unis will be a different experience from now on. Not sure they'll have the same attraction to foreign students anymore. Fly to Uk and sit in your room alone. Woo hoo.

Being able to re-watch a recorded live lecture, or watching it for the first time if they didn't attend is VERY different from there being no choice to attend and the only option being to watch it remotely.

I've no doubt some students prefer to watch lectures online or have the facility to watch it again at a later date, but what about choice. What about students who prefer to attend a real lecture?

I think that recording lectures to be watched later has been a really good idea as it gives the students a choice. But taking away their choice to attend in person is a step too far.

@mumsneedwine

Looks like our kids will go through Uni never having set foot in the nice shiny lecture theatres they showed us on open days. What are they going to be used for ? Expensive conferences maybe. Looks like British Unis will be a different experience from now on. Not sure they'll have the same attraction to foreign students anymore. Fly to Uk and sit in your room alone. Woo hoo.

More sweeping generalisations.......

Why is it that you know better that all of the university staff commenting on this thread?

So what are the lecture theatres going to be use for then?

@Kazzyhoward

So what are the lecture theatres going to be use for then?

Erm...teaching.

I'm booked into use my normal lecture theatre from September 🤷🏼‍♀️

At my husband's uni they have 1000's of students back on campus currently who are using lecture theatres and classrooms.