Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

[mumsneedwine]

Most Unis are not planning f2f lectures next year. The academics on here seem to be the exceptions (wish they'd name their Unis as they'd be v popular). Just watched Bristol offer holder stuff for next year. Be prepared to never see a lecture theatre.
And a student has committed suicide at NTU as was struggling to cope on line & found out failed 2nd year - via email. Students are being expected to get the same scores this year when teaching has been v limited with limited person support (obviously not at the Unis with staff on here). It's so v v sad. With no consistency. My DD has 6 proctored exams over 3 weeks while her contemporary in Notts has 2 open book ones. For the same degree. Almost like they want some of them to fail.

[IntoAir]

They may be planning to use the time and space freed up by moving content online, such as lectures, to provide more seminars, labs and tutorials etc. That is what we are planning. I doubt that we are unique.

Yes @Etulosba, that's what we did September to December, 2020. And did again as soon as we were legally permitted to do so in 2021. And what we're planning for the 2021-22 academic year.

[user1497207191]

If they're not careful, they'll end up with the shy/introverted types staying at home and mostly the partying crowd going to the Uni, not for the education, but for the social life. That will mess up the balance and could well cause conflict locally, i.e. a higher proportion of partying students may start to affect a Uni's reputation etc., i.e. drunkenness, drugs, noise, etc. Some uni's already have that bad reputation, and I'm sure others without it won't want to suffer the same fate.

[IrmaFayLear]

I expect it varies widely. There will I am sure be those short-sighted institutions who think, “Bingo! Cheap repeat lectures online, fewer staff needed, more students can cough up for all the accommodation blocks being built...”. Once potential students get a sniff of this business plan it won’t look such a no-brainer money-spinner.

[Etulosba]

but on the other hand, the more they do online, the less need for students to be on campus.

Not necessarily. They may be planning to use the time and space freed up by moving content online, such as lectures, to provide more seminars, labs and tutorials etc. That is what we are planning. I doubt that we are unique.

[user1497207191]

@mumsneedwine

Ah so it's for their own good now. Well that's a new one.
Am v sure some Unis will be rethinking on line after the fiasco of exams. And one Uni has now acknowledged that some of their on line delivery was so rubbish they have re-recorded one section. Nothing to worry about - it's only for the next generation of doctors.

Can't believe Unis are trying to spin it that the students benefit from a crap year!

Some Unis are really going to suffer. They rely on students being on site, but the more done "online", the less need there is to be on site. That's going to blow a massive hole in accommodation revenue if they're not careful. Not to mention the other real estate, such as large lecture theatres that need to be used to earn their keep - or will Uni's demolish them? What about those who have revenue streams from shops, bars, restaurants, dentists, doctors, and hair salons - those businesses won't pay the current level of rents if they have fewer customers if more students stay at home.

They need to be careful with their mixed messages. On the one hand, they need students on campus, but on the other hand, the more they do online, the less need for students to be on campus.

Whilst a lot of students will still want to "go" to Uni for the socialising, partying, etc., a lot aren't interested in that and just want to go for the educational experience, which if they don't need to be there, they may just stay at home!

[user1497207191]

@Etulosba

Whether they are stuck in their tiny bedrooms or not, depends largely on the course and the university. I'm teaching a lab session now and the geeks were all here at 9. The cool kids about 30 minutes later.

They are all working happily together now.

Well, yes, of course it depends on the course/Uni, but some people having a half decent experience is of no comfort for those who aren't, through no fault of their own.

[Etulosba]

Whether they are stuck in their tiny bedrooms or not, depends largely on the course and the university. I'm teaching a lab session now and the geeks were all here at 9. The cool kids about 30 minutes later.

They are all working happily together now.

[IrmaFayLear]

[Kazzyhoward]

@IrmaFayLear

I see that the Telegraph today has an article on how students have been shafted. It mentions the online business and how provision varies considerably.

It also talks about the "soft losses" of students: the friends they never get to make, or the partner, or the interests etc.

I think it's particularly hard for geeky or shyer students. The outgoing will always find friends and social opportunities, but the awkward ones, not so much, and university is a chance for them to find likeminded compatriots.

I agree. My son would be classed as a "geeky" or "shy" student and he's really struggled. No clubs/societies, gym closed for months, his college common room closed, none of his lecturers on campus so no face to face. He's had no chance at all for meeting anyone other than his flatmates as he's not a bar/party goer. The "party animals" have continue to party throughout, whether legally or illegally, so they've been able to socialise to some extent and meet people, but the non drinking/non partying students have been left high and dry, stuck in their tiny bedrooms.

[IrmaFayLear]

I see that the Telegraph today has an article on how students have been shafted. It mentions the online business and how provision varies considerably.

It also talks about the "soft losses" of students: the friends they never get to make, or the partner, or the interests etc.

I think it's particularly hard for geeky or shyer students. The outgoing will always find friends and social opportunities, but the awkward ones, not so much, and university is a chance for them to find likeminded compatriots.

[mumsneedwine]

Ah so it's for their own good now. Well that's a new one.
Am v sure some Unis will be rethinking on line after the fiasco of exams. And one Uni has now acknowledged that some of their on line delivery was so rubbish they have re-recorded one section. Nothing to worry about - it's only for the next generation of doctors.

[MarchingFrogs]

As an additional feature of the course, some of the content will be delivered wholly online to give flexibility and to develop personal responsibility in your studies.

So that's how Warwick are selling it (on their new BSc Health and Medical Sciences course, not at all what I had gone to the Warwick site for, but I am easily sidetracked...).

[mumsneedwine]

@Kazzyhoward yup. Mine was caught up in that too. Lots of v upset and angry students tonight. Exams cancelled, started late with little warning and just utter chaos. Told her she needs to appeal if been disadvantaged- can not believe they are expecting the same standard when students have not met a member of staff in person to ask questions.

[Kazzyhoward]

If Unis aren't going back to how things were pre covid, then at least they should get their act together with their online systems. Bristol have had problems today with their online exam system crashing. It's really just not good enough.

thetab.com/uk/bristol/2021/05/24/bristol-uni-students-unable-to-take-final-year-exams-as-online-university-goes-offline-46256

[Xenia]

dreaming their one year post grad course this academic year has been 100% online. They have not met a single person on their courses and the course is now finished - exam results awaited. So there is a vryr good chance this academic year will be 100% online particularly as that makes their institution a lot more money (more students, no buildings or at least no staff in buildings, no heating in buildings etc etc).

My point about Leeds is they would live at home with me here in London but be registered for the £4k cheaper Leeds course if it is 100% online and do that same course as the London one and save me £8k, They would not rent property in Leeds (as I did for one of them for £7k in Bristol this academic year for the 100% online course)

We cannot take the risk even if it is a 20% chance, that the course will be in person, so will not register for Leeds but I just hope they get £8000 worth of London real experience and classes in a class room, meeting other students etc week in week out as their older sisters did on the same Legal practice course in pre covid times. (by the way another institution offering the same professional courses has had a fair bit of face to face lectures this academic year including some this week)

[boys3]

DS2 (in second year, humanities subject) had face to face restart this week.

I'm not going to join the generalisations in many ways this thread has been reminiscent of the old GS threads, once they and the endless RG ones, are both fully resumed we'll know normality has returned but for DS2's Uni, and perhaps more specifically his faculty, I'm not really sure quite what more the staff, be they academic or other, could have realistically done.

[KingscoteStaff]

Link to You and Yours piece.

[LoonvanBoon]

This issue is being discussed now on 'You and Yours' on radio 4 - it started at about 12.50pm for anyone wanting to catch up later.

[dreamingbohemian]

Xenia I would say the only way there would be no in person teaching at a London uni would be if there is a proper third wave and universities are not allowed to teach f2f again, like this past year. And if that happens, it will be the case for all universities, in Leeds as well. So the question is, why would you go sit in halls in Leeds and be totally online when you could at least be living at home and doing it.

Also while this year might still be a bit transitional, because we still don't know for sure what government policy will be in September, hopefully for their Years 2 and 3 there will be no more issues. So think long-term.

I have yet to see any university saying they will be totally online in September. The question is more what proportion will be online and that will vary a lot.

[Xenia]

I have a special issue. My twins are registered for London for their Sept course. the fees are £4000 m ore than Leeds - same institution. if Leeds and London will be 100% on line I can save myself £4k x 2 = £8000 - a lot of money even for me if they register for Leeds instead. If it is not online given they live at home in London then I will pay the extra £8k. I would like to know by the summer however as if there will be no in person teaching why would anyone register for London not Leeds?

[DelBocaVista]

Prospective students need to know NOW - the UCAS deadline is 10th June!

We can only tell you what we hope will happen but we can't say for sure.
We are planning to be back to normal but with some courses opting for a blended approach as it is most appropriate for their subject/students. However, that is relying on all restrictions being lifted in June. If we have to do any kind of social distancing then that changes things dramatically.

[IntoAir]

How many times ...?

We just don't know.

At my place, we are planning to be in person, except (probably) for some large lectures - a mix of concerns about COVID safety and also that a lot of students have really liked the option of online lectures, available at whatever time they prefer rather than 8:30am or 7pm (and yes, I've taught at both those times because of difficulties of accommodating a large group in an appropriate space). My students cheered when I told them I'd swapped a 2 hour lecture session from an 8:30 for a 5:30pm slot (although it was tiring & inconvenient for me).

We do know that the UK PM 's most recent announcement was to shed some doubt on the absolute firmness of the 21st June date. We are in the hands of a government which doesn't know what it's doing, and for whom HE is a very low priority.