Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

@DrEllie not sure anyone said it's not been hard work. We are saying we'd like them to go back to normal asap. Which sounds like it will be easier on staff too. So wins all round 😊

@DrEllie meant to say thank you. As a teacher I know how hard remote learning is. I'm so glad I'm back in my crowded stuffy rooms full of lovely teens (but only because I've had a jab).

In a survey we did (ITT trainees, large university), they overwhelmingly requested asynchronous online lectures and in-person seminars and tutorials.

So the plan for next year is groups of up to 30 F2F, with no social distancing, for seminars, and lectures (usually 200- 450 people in a lecture theatre) on line and mostly pre-recorded.

The trainees preferred lectures not F2F because they said there was very little interaction between individuals and the lecturer anyway with the huge numbers; they preferred to access a lecture at a time to suit them, and they particularly valued being able to stop the presentation to take notes or look things up.

We are concerned that what would have been an hour's lecture can stretch to 3 or 4 hours for an (over?) conscientious student as they dissect each seaction - with knock-on workload problems. Also that some may delay watching them and then get overwhelmed by the backlog and not have had the preparation for a seminar or essay - but some used to miss lectutes and so were unprepared anyway! Now at least they can catch up when / if they realise they need the info.

Those talking about students stuck on their own in bedsits, the presumption is that society is opened up again next year, so they could hang out in one another 's bedsits or communal kichens, go to libraries or cafes and watch lectures together or on their own in company with others.

I think it will work, and could actually improve the offer.

Our course offers weekly slots for trainees to contact lecturers via direct messaging about lecture content - I assume that will also continue.

[quote mumsneedwine]@DrEllie meant to say thank you. As a teacher I know how hard remote learning is. I'm so glad I'm back in my crowded stuffy rooms full of lovely teens (but only because I've had a jab). [/quote]
Thanks to you as well 💐 don't envy school teachers. The pandemic has been hard on everyone, especially young people, I really feel for them. They been lied to and exploited and have lost so many experiences

Mature student here, STEM. This year has been utterly fucking depressing with no in person lectures. I have missed them. I don’t want to stare at a fucking screen for 20 hours a week.

I’ll defer my final year if my Uni announces this.

20K to sit at home watching my laptop? I think the fuck not.

@Scarby9 they could watch lectures together. In a lecture theatre.

Absolutely they could, but the decision has been taken not to offer that next year, because of the other feedback I listed.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Scarby9 they could watch lectures together. In a lecture theatre. [/quote]
This.

It gives structure and normality.

My eldest DC is in Y8 and has been in classes all year long (barring lockdown), so why can’t we do lectures in person?

#makeitmakesense

Universities don’t go back until late September at the earliest. There’s a big gap between June and September to work things out. No need to announce in April/May that lectures will be online.

But that's not what this thread is saying, is it? People want to know now what the plan is, so they can decide what to do. And that's completely fair!

Universities also need to decide now because there are an enormous number of follow-on decisions once that decision is made, about staffing and teaching plans and timetabling and student numbers, all of it.

I know it probably sounds like bullshit but the fact that every university is saying basically the same thing should tell you that the problems are real.

@Scarby9 feedback from students ? Because I don't know one who has enjoyed on line lectures. And I'm in touch with several thousand.
I think Unis should publish the student surveys so they can show this desire to stay remote.

And yes students watch lectures back in their own time. But they always did this. So asking for you like having lectures recorded is not the same as asking if you'd like all lectures in person. Both can get a yes.

Maybe our survey is skewed because this is ITT so trainees are mostly in schools, many under huge workload pressures, and have to travel quite a distance to the university. So it makes more sense for them to limit the visits to sessions that work best F2F?
I don't know why their views appear out of line compared with views on this thread, but I am just telling you what the feedback has been.

This is appalling. Queens Belfast is apparently doing the same. Pathetic laziness on the part of uni management not to get things back to normal. If schools can do it so can they. I have 2 at uni and this year has totally sucked. They both want to get back in daily.

@DrEllie

I'm a Lecturer, have been for almost 20 years. I've never worked as hard as I have this past year - my colleagues and I had to learn new technologies with no training or time. A combination of online and face to face means doing everything at least 3 times. Student needs - educational and welfare - have grown hugely. DD1 started her 1st year at a different uni this year so I can see both sides (plus I care about my students and their learning, mental health). I hate doing online lectures and would much rather be doing them in person, but the idea that hundreds of students inside lecture theatres often without good ventilation is not a good one for the students or staff (many of whom.are high risk through age, ethnicity etc). Why do so many think we are skiving? I am regularly working every wekend and evening.

This is about sept rather than now. Hopefully risk massively reduced by then

Are you sure about MMU?
My DH works there and according to him huge numbers of students are back on campus now and there has been no announcement about being online next year.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Scarby9 feedback from students ? Because I don't know one who has enjoyed on line lectures. And I'm in touch with several thousand.
I think Unis should publish the student surveys so they can show this desire to stay remote.[/quote]
When were the surveys done? It’s an ever changing situation.

@dreamingbohemian

Universities don’t go back until late September at the earliest. There’s a big gap between June and September to work things out. No need to announce in April/May that lectures will be online.

But that's not what this thread is saying, is it? People want to know now what the plan is, so they can decide what to do. And that's completely fair!

Universities also need to decide now because there are an enormous number of follow-on decisions once that decision is made, about staffing and teaching plans and timetabling and student numbers, all of it.

I know it probably sounds like bullshit but the fact that every university is saying basically the same thing should tell you that the problems are real.

It sounds like decisions are being made based on the situation in say Feb/March? Which has improved thank heavens. So surely we all pivot back? With recorded lectures for those who prefer it?

I hate to be that person, but our students also say they like having lectures online - and since we started video capture a few years ago attendance has plummeted. So yes, there is plenty of evidence that students aren't that bothered about in person lectures. Whether they tell their parents that is another matter, and I like many uni colleagues on MN will tell you stories of parents being told X, when Y is the truth - kids tell you what they think you want to hear - sorry.

That is not to say that practicals, tutorials and seminars should continue online. They categorically shouldn't. But the extra learning gained by being in a lecture theatre with 400 others, compared to at home with a laptop, is zero. Peer learning, and peer interaction generally, is far better served in smaller groups meeting.

@titchy

I hate to be that person, but our students also say they like having lectures online - and since we started video capture a few years ago attendance has plummeted. So yes, there is plenty of evidence that students aren't that bothered about in person lectures. Whether they tell their parents that is another matter, and I like many uni colleagues on MN will tell you stories of parents being told X, when Y is the truth - kids tell you what they think you want to hear - sorry.

That is not to say that practicals, tutorials and seminars should continue online. They categorically shouldn't. But the extra learning gained by being in a lecture theatre with 400 others, compared to at home with a laptop, is zero. Peer learning, and peer interaction generally, is far better served in smaller groups meeting.

Mine likes the recordings as she can speed them up! But she says she would go as she hasn’t met anyone on her course. A 2nd year. I think students should be asked again as given the low contact theyve had they may feel different to previous years.

@PantTwizzler I think it’s utterly pathetic that universities are inventing their own covid rules that go above and beyond what is demanded by the government.
Absolutely how dare they care more about saving lives and preventing long term health issues than Boris et al. Utter scum.

I just asked my first year what she'd prefer and she said as she's never had an in person lecture she can't say. Not one. And Uni saying it will be 6 hours in person teaching max next year - she should have over30. She's in tears. I'm angry. I hope Unis realise the utter despair of these kids who just want a normal Uni experience after a shit year. Not some half baked sitting in a poxy room alone rubbish. Something is going very wrong here.

@mumsneedwine

I just asked my first year what she'd prefer and she said as she's never had an in person lecture she can't say. Not one. And Uni saying it will be 6 hours in person teaching max next year - she should have over30. She's in tears. I'm angry. I hope Unis realise the utter despair of these kids who just want a normal Uni experience after a shit year. Not some half baked sitting in a poxy room alone rubbish. Something is going very wrong here.

It’s so depressing to hear lecturers arguing for lower contact with students.

Mine has never had a live lecture so not sure how she’s meant to not like them. Surely most first years (going in to 2nd) are the same.

@Newgirls I'm so angry tonight I'm gong to have to turn off phone or I'm going to be v rude on Twitter to DDs Uni. 6 hours max. What a joke.

People are making some incorrect assumptions on this thread but I guess it has been a week or so since the last HE bashing thread so we were due another and some people won't let the truth get in the way of that!!!

HE staff are not pushing for less contact with students

Blended learning does not mean everything online and Zero f2f, in person contact

I know for a fact that one university named early on on this thread is already back to in person delivery (more so than most unis) and has no plans to go fully online in September unless told to by the government- so yet more misinformation

Oh, and students aren't customers

@DelBocaVista DD was told tonight it will be 6 hours max. For a course with over 30 teaching hours a week. She is so upset as was looking forward to actually being at Uni rather than just a visitor every now and then. There is no excuse. Everywhere else returning to normal, just Unis that are a special case. It's shit.