Another year online?

[Ellewoods20]

Despite the easing of restrictions in June, some universities have informed students that lectures will remain online in the next academic year. What’s the point? :(

[mumsneedwine]

@Kazzyhoward exactly. If you've asked first years they don't know as they've never had one in person. So let them at least try it out.
@DelBocaVista if DDs Uni offer less than the others doing the same course I think they'll be in trouble with the RCVS. I'm sure they have a lot of clout ! That's where students have decided to complain to tonight if Uni don't give them more.
I just don't get the logic. Covid can't be an excuse for stunting life for ever.
And if on line is as good why did schools have to go back so fast ??? I hate on line, I hate on line meetings, I want to see a human in front of me not a bunch of pixls. Even Google has acknowledged on line is not as good and is getting employees back at least 3 days a week.

[Kazzyhoward]

@DelBocaVista Once we moved online my enquiries quadrupled - we ended up putting on a January start which will always be online. We will continue with a blended option for September starts because that is what my students want.

So prospective students know what to expect when they sign up. That's brilliant and exactly how it should be. Trouble with other Unis/courses is that students aren't being told what they're going to get or, even worse, being lied to as happened at some Unis last Summer. It sounds like you and your Uni are doing exactly the right thing and I hope that other Unis follow suit.

[mumsneedwine]

@DelBocaVista and how come you know better than all the parents on here telling you how shit our kids lives have been ? You try and negate our kids experiences by saying how great you've been. We are telling you that's not the case and we are angry.
DD has been told they don't be in the lecture theatre next year - but I'm sure it will be used for something. Just not students.

[mumsneedwine]

Maybe DD should transfer to @DelBocaVista or her husbands Uni. Do they do vet med ?

[DelBocaVista]

DDs Uni offer less than the others doing the same course I think they'll be in trouble with the RCVS. I'm sure they have a lot of clout ! That's where students have decided to complain to tonight if Uni don't give them more.

They should complain. Good for them.

And if on line is as good why did schools have to go back so fast ???

Universities are very different to schools. We had different guidance and restrictions.

I hate on line, I hate on line meetings, I want to see a human in front of me not a bunch of pixls. Even Google has acknowledged on line is not as good and is getting employees back at least 3 days a week.

Again, you're comparing two different things ...work and study. You can't really compare the two.
Online learning works well for some people and some courses. As I said my online course is very popular but it doesn't work for everyone so we also have a blended version. That's how it will work in most universities.
Nobody will move entirely online permanently but blended can be very, very effective.

[DelBocaVista]

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista and how come you know better than all the parents on here telling you how shit our kids lives have been ? You try and negate our kids experiences by saying how great you've been. We are telling you that's not the case and we are angry.
DD has been told they don't be in the lecture theatre next year - but I'm sure it will be used for something. Just not students.[/quote]
I'm not saying it hasn't been shit for some students - I'm saying not all university staff are shit. Not all universities are shit.

And I have quite a good insight into how HE works as I happen to teach HE policy and practice. The broad generalisations are very frustrating.

[changi]

Nobody will move entirely online permanently but blended can be very, very effective.

Before covid reared its ugly head, I was planning to go blended anyway.

[DelBocaVista]

@mumsneedwine

Maybe DD should transfer to *@DelBocaVista* or her husbands Uni. Do they do vet med ?

Unfortunately not.
Both post 92 institutions which aren't popular on MN!

[DelBocaVista]

@changi

Nobody will move entirely online permanently but blended can be very, very effective.

Before covid reared its ugly head, I was planning to go blended anyway.

Me too.
It was something we were asked about frequently.

[AllThatisSolid]

I know for a fact that one university named early on on this thread is already back to in person delivery

I'm teaching some stuff in person, and some stuff on line. We're doing it within government guidelines and because, yes, we are dealing with a disease which can kill people (just heard today of the death of a colleague at 50 from COVID. It's not "just flu").

[AllThatisSolid]

They're paying for a service.

No they are not. Academics are not a service industry.

But your slur of us "hiding behind our sofas" shows how little you know of what actually happens at universities. I'd love to even sit on my sofa, but I've been on Zoom meetings since 8am today. Just managed to get out for a walk at 6.30 this evening. Now ack to marking.

[AllThatisSolid]

Content delivery is not best done in a big room with loads of other students listening to a lecturer talking for ages

I started teaching as a PhD student in the late 1980s. I did a lot of training courses: one was called "50 Good reasons why Lectures are not good for student learning" - and it was a serious couple of days of training where we looked at alternatives to lectures.

So this is not a new thing - we've been 'flipping' the lecture theatre for about a decade.

It's clear how little some of the HE bashers on this thread actually know about university pedagogy.

[AllThatisSolid]

Looks like our kids will go through Uni never having set foot in the nice shiny lecture theatres they showed us on open days.

Oh don't be ridiculous!

Around 30% of them didn't attend pre-COVID.

[mumsneedwine]

@AllThatisSolid IF my DD had been told all her lectures would be on line and IF that's what she'd chosen then fine. But at offer holder day we sat in the lecture theatre and were told how much time they'd been in there.
IF they'd said you'll never step foot in here again she'd have gone somewhere else.
So changing the rules once students have signed up is lying. Change the rules for the future so students can choose is fine, but what has happened to our kids is blatant dishonesty. Especially if they were planning it all along but just 'forgot' to tell the students this.

[mumsneedwine]

@AllThatisSolid 😂😂 my eldest never missed a lecture. Not once. Nor did most of her course.

[mumsneedwine]

Oh and because 30% never turned up the other 70% can go stuff it. Unbelievable

[DelBocaVista]

[quote mumsneedwine]@AllThatisSolid IF my DD had been told all her lectures would be on line and IF that's what she'd chosen then fine. But at offer holder day we sat in the lecture theatre and were told how much time they'd been in there.
IF they'd said you'll never step foot in here again she'd have gone somewhere else.
So changing the rules once students have signed up is lying. Change the rules for the future so students can choose is fine, but what has happened to our kids is blatant dishonesty. Especially if they were planning it all along but just 'forgot' to tell the students this.[/quote]
When was your offer holder day? Pre-covid?

I told my students they'd be in 2 full days a week but that all changed when the government told us we had to teach socially distanced and eventually move everything online. It also changed when the government fucked up A level results and made us take more students than we'd planned for.

[mumsneedwine]

@DelBocaVista offer holder was last March. Just before lockdown. And I'm talking about from Sept, when the government has said no restrictions will apply. She was promised in person lectures, now being told she'll never have one. Because on line works. Not for her as her eyes are losing sight because of the time she's on a computer. She would not have gone to her Uni if they'd said no lectures again. We were sat in the lecture theatre and they said you'll be in here for loads of time from now on. Seems like that is now a lie.

[DelBocaVista]

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista offer holder was last March. Just before lockdown. And I'm talking about from Sept, when the government has said no restrictions will apply. She was promised in person lectures, now being told she'll never have one. Because on line works. Not for her as her eyes are losing sight because of the time she's on a computer. She would not have gone to her Uni if they'd said no lectures again. We were sat in the lecture theatre and they said you'll be in here for loads of time from now on. Seems like that is now a lie.[/quote]
I don't think you can hold them to what they said last March. That's not really fair! Nobody knew what was going to happen.

September 2021 is a different story and is worth of pushing further.

[AllThatisSolid]

@mumsneedwine In January, we had to convert all our teaching - due to be in person to online with about 3 days' notice because of a hastily announced lockdown. We could have promised students the moon, but it would have been illegal.

Prior to that (Term 1), we were teaching in person where we could, adhering to again legal government required practices: social distancing etc. So a room where we';d normally fit in 20 students in a (crowded) seminar, would accommodate 4 students + staff member.

This is not lying: this is following the fucking law of the land. You're a teacher, I think? so use your brain about this.

You are basing your sweeping generalisations on the experience of the 1 student you know, your DD, and assuming you know more about how universities work than the experienced academics explaining how we do things on this thread.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

[mumsneedwine]

@DelBocaVista I am talking about this Sept ! They have told them no in person lectures and 6 hours max in person. This is supposed to be a 'top' Uni. Unless they cause a fuss and complain (& DD just wants to learn and not have to do that) she'll never see that lecture theatre again.
They lied. She is upset.

[mumsneedwine]

@AllThatisSolid I'm not taking about his year, I'm talking about from September. When no COVID regulations exist. There is no excuse. She has been lied to.

[DelBocaVista]

[quote mumsneedwine]@DelBocaVista I am talking about this Sept ! They have told them no in person lectures and 6 hours max in person. This is supposed to be a 'top' Uni. Unless they cause a fuss and complain (& DD just wants to learn and not have to do that) she'll never see that lecture theatre again.
They lied. She is upset. [/quote]
I really think she should complain. The universities minister is clear about that.

[mumsneedwine]

@AllThatisSolid as you obviously have a massive brain (& apologies for my tiny one), how can a Uni justify offering no f2f lectures from Sept ? None. Telling students they'll never get an lecture in person again. 6 hours in person a week. Out of 30+ learning hours. Please explain as my tiny brain can't work it out.

[mumsneedwine]

@DelBocaVista they are composing to the RCVS as a 5 year cohort.