Where did the idea come from that extracurricular activities were important for university applications?

[Reallybadidea]

Was it ever true? I applied to universities in the 90s and throughout secondary, my parents were obsessed with me joining clubs, sports teams, DofE so that I'd "have something to put on my UCAS form to show that you're a well-rounded applicant". It still seems to be a popular belief on here that having grade A piano (for eg) will enhance your application.

I get that courses such as medicine, nursing etc need relevant work experience. But the other stuff? Is it/was it ever important?

Grade 8 music ( and 7 I believe) comes with UCAS points.. maybe it’s that?

I do think applications used to be looked at in a more well rounded way. But personally I think that those things are essentials not added extras (for personal growth not getting into uni). I mean you can't learn to be a team player without being in a team. You can't learn how to learn a skill without going through that process. You can't learn how to pick yourself up after failing without having tried anything.

It might come from the fact that certain extracurricular qualifications do get UCAS points.
However, competitive courses at competitive universities will usually give a grade-based offer, not a points-based offer.

Or it might come from a perception that admissions teams are looking for that sort of thing on the personal statement. DS was advised at a Cambridge open day to make 90% of the personal statement directly relevant for the course he applied for. He ended up adding one sentence at the end about extracurriculars, which was probably ignored. He was asked a question about something on his personal statement as an ice-breaker at the start of a couple of Physics interviews, but it was about a research project he had done in interpreting data from a space telescope, not his Grade 8 clarinet.

This was drummed into us at secondary school in the 90s:

You need to have one creative hobby
You need to have one sporty hobby
You need to partake in one volunteering activity a week

On our personal statement we were told 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 so:

1/3 on why they wanted to study the course
1/3 on why they university and/or college chosen
1/3 on extra curricular activities

This was a selective girl school and most people went to Red brick university after and probably 1/3 to oxbridge.

I applied to university in the 90s, my parents had absolutely no part in the process. I paid the UCCA and PCAS application fees myself.
No-one mentioned any extra-curricular things were important. If you did any, they could be put in the personal statement.

I went from a 6th form college to a red brick and did B.Sc. (Hons.) in an academic subject.

No-one says "Hons." any more, do they?

(I have heard that Durham is interested in things like being head girl or playing hockey for the county. They provide the opportunity to submit a separate personal statement which has more of an extracurricular focus than the general UCAS statement)

Yes I think it used to be that points were used more than grades. ( certainly seemed like that when ds applied 7 years ago) . So maybe it’s a legacy from that time? .. some of those extra curriculars which came with points were seen as valuable. Ds was encourage to add as much as possible.
My dd who applied this year however was advised not to bother with writing anything in her actual PS that wasn’t directly related to the course she applied for.

It depends on the University. One of mine went to Glasgow and at the open day the Admissions Officer made a point of saying they never even looked at the supporting statement - offers were made on grades alone, unless they were a Widening Participation candidate.

One of mine did nursing and that was grades and interview. The extra-curricular stuff was not taken into consideration. Again this is Scotland.

I think it used to be important but now theres an awareness that it decreases social mobility/ diversity. The ability to take part in a range of extra-curricular activities mostly show how much money/time/interest the parents had, not any qualities the child had. A young carer is unlikely to have had these opportunities, for example. Music lessons are unaffordable for many. Families may have 3 kids and 2 frazzled working parents who also have to juggle looking after a grandparent with Alzheimers and health issues of one child - what time do they have take their kids each to a sports club once a week?

It's discriminatory rot.

At an Open Day for Exeter University, we were told they don't even bother reading the personal statements!

Doesn't Durham now say that the alternative PS is only an option you are given to explain why you want to do Course Y there when your main PS is all about why you want to do Course X everywhere else? And what use do / did they put the info re your headgirlship / hockey prowess to, exactly? I can understand the latter if they were offering sports scholarships or for those wanting to do Secondary Education, games teacher specialisation (is there such a thing and if so, does Durham offer it?), but otherwise...?

At the talk at Cambridge I attended with DS2, the AT who spoke was very clear that they are not interested in things that you had only had the opportunity to do because mummy and daddy were able to pay lots of money for you to do them.

@Hollyhocksarenotmessy

I think it used to be important but now theres an awareness that it decreases social mobility/ diversity. The ability to take part in a range of extra-curricular activities mostly show how much money/time/interest the parents had, not any qualities the child had. A young carer is unlikely to have had these opportunities, for example. Music lessons are unaffordable for many. Families may have 3 kids and 2 frazzled working parents who also have to juggle looking after a grandparent with Alzheimers and health issues of one child - what time do they have take their kids each to a sports club once a week?

It's discriminatory rot.

^this. Having been to a school full of this kind of nonsense, I can safely say that all these demonstrated was how pushy and/or wealthy your parents were

Excellent point @Hollyhocksarenotmessy. If that is the reason for it’s non relevance these days , then maybe it’s a good thing. However.. non spenny stuff like Voluntary work .. that would be pretty worthy on a PS?

I suppose if you have 50 places on a course and 200 people apply its a way of finding the exceptional students.

A** in maths, physics and chemistry, but also captain of the rugby team and grade 7 piano, and gold DofE is better on paper than just the exam results. It shows they were able to get those grades and all have time for the rest. It also shows they are a team player.

Dd applied to Durham. She had no idea of any alternative PS and never submitted one . Perhaps it’s not a thing anymore

Yes, it's what Hollyhocksarenotmessy said. A hangover from another age when few people went to university and the process focussed on identifying "people like us".

@Longtimenewsee if it’s relevant they send you the link, a pp us right that it’s only relevant now if for example you have applied for English everywhere else and Liberal Arts at Durham or medicine elsewhere and Natsci at Durham .

Once the state school kids started getting better grades than the private school kids
it became a covert way to weed them out
ditto "volunteering experience"

One thing to also remember is the personal statement is not just a list of books I have read and MOOCs I have done and lectures I have attended. They do want to see their view on these things too. Too often parents say that their child had a great PS with lots of supra curricular when in reality it reads like a bibliography rather than containing any form or critical analysis of what they have undertaken or view thereon.

When I applied to Cambridge it was clear that three or four As wasn't enough. More students have the top grades than Cambridge and Oxford have places for. So that's why other activities are seen as a good thing.

I agree with a PP though, it's biased towards children who had an easy life with rich-ish parents.

@PursuingProxemicExactitude

Yes, it's what Hollyhocksarenotmessy said. A hangover from another age when few people went to university and the process focussed on identifying "people like us".

That's really interesting and I hadn't thought of that at all.

A in maths, physics and chemistry, but also captain of the rugby team and grade 7 piano, and gold DofE is better on paper than just the exam results. It shows they were able to get those grades and all have time for the rest. It also shows they are a team player.

I'm not denying at all that all these activities have an intrinsic value, but they're really not needed to do well at university. Why would 'team work' be necessary for, say, reading English? And I also disagree that they demonstrate greater abilities if they can get good grades and do other stuff. What about the kid who gets grades whilst also babysitting a younger sibling? Or who has to get a part time job to support themselves? They're not PS-worthy but arguably they've got at least as much commitment and ability as the kid whose parents can pay for piano lessons.

More students have the top grades than Cambridge and Oxford have places for. So that's why other activities are seen as a good thing.

Can't speak for Oxford, but that is absolutely not the case at Cambridge, as evidenced by the AT I quoted above. It was the one who used to speak for the university on TSR as well; if his views on extracurricular activities were wildly out of step with the overall policy of the university, it seems unlikely that he would be given such unfettered access to potential applicants and the world at large?

indeed @Reallybadidea, and i’d go further and argue that holding down a job at macdonald’s or caring for your little
sister or dealing with your mum’s alcohol problem or processing being in care etc etc is far MORE worthy of being on a personal statement than some wank about how mummy and daddy paid for you to go and
‘volunteer’ at an orphanage or whatever

Playing the piano to grade eight or doing dance lessons or elaborate voluntary work is a sign of privilege and leisure. Nothing wrong with any of those things if you enjoy them, but it’s monumentally unfair if they give you an advantage in getting a uni place!

@safariboot

When I applied to Cambridge it was clear that three or four As wasn't enough. More students have the top grades than Cambridge and Oxford have places for. So that's why other activities are seen as a good thing.

I agree with a PP though, it's biased towards children who had an easy life with rich-ish parents.

Not any more, though.