Where did the idea come from that extracurricular activities were important for university applications?

[Reallybadidea]

Was it ever true? I applied to universities in the 90s and throughout secondary, my parents were obsessed with me joining clubs, sports teams, DofE so that I'd "have something to put on my UCAS form to show that you're a well-rounded applicant". It still seems to be a popular belief on here that having grade A piano (for eg) will enhance your application.

I get that courses such as medicine, nursing etc need relevant work experience. But the other stuff? Is it/was it ever important?

It is really important for Uni admissions people to realise that parents without two cars and an unlimited fuel budget cannot even consider letting their kids take up such sports.
Rubbish. There was a lad at DS's school, very good at sport, parents couldn't ferry him to county training ... so we took him. It's not impossible. Where there's a will there can be a way.

Doing say 9 GCSEs plus hobbies is probably better for the individual than doing 16 and no hobbies and when you apply for jobs it pays to have some kind of hobbies so you have sometihng to talk ahout.

Mind you isn't one university about to ban all sheet music (appalling for me a singer - most of my university hobbies involved sheet music day in day out) so everyone is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator to make thins "fair" so it sounds like we are moving to an ear where effort and hard work are not as important as where you are born and you your parents are (in a perverse kind of way eg if your parents did not go to university you might get into university and that kind of thing - Alice in Wonderland stuff)

The Sutton trust have some interesting research about personal statements. It's true that some competitive universities can fill their places by going on grades alone but for "non trad" applicants, the PS is a way to stand out.

It needs to be treated as a piece of academic writing and extra curricular is almost irrelevant unless applying for a course linked to the extra curricular activity (sport, music, dance etc). Otherwise it's a chance to go beyond the usual "passion" for the subject and lists of books. It should be focussed, analytical and academic.

www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Making-a-Statement-FINAL.pdf

“It is really important for Uni admissions people to realise that parents without two cars and an unlimited fuel budget cannot even consider letting their kids take up such sports.”

While I get what you’re saying, that not everyone in life has the same opportunities and that we all learn from an early age that life isn’t fair, this really does not need to turn into a race to the bottom. Most parents will do their best to take their kids to clubs and activities.

Actively discriminating against such kids who are highly motivated in sport (yes the parents may be highly motivated too, but we all know you can’t make a teenager do something they don’t want to do, especially get up at 4am!) smacks of sour grapes and is no better in my eyes than positive discrimination of others.

Rubbish. There was a lad at DS's school, very good at sport, parents couldn't ferry him to county training ... so we took him. It's not impossible. Where there's a will there can be a way.

But not always. Not all disadvantaged children have someone as lovely as you to help them out.

No not everyone is like me, but my 3 adult dc’s plenty of other adult dc I’ve worked with or trained could step up to a gruelling schedule without having to get up at 4.00 am to go swimming in their teens.

Just because they chose to do that doesn’t give them super powers

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow no it doesn't give them superpowers but it does mean they are dedicated and disciplined and driven which are good qualities to have in a human and an employer

Why? Because getting up at 4:00 am to go swimming is morally superior to gaming or clubbing?

Gaming needs discipline and teamwork.

How many 17/18 year olds are disciplined? They don’t know anything about themselves at that age. What about the ones who can’t swim?

It’s such a narrow view. Plenty of people are disciplined and motivated. Why does getting up at 4.00 am prove that?

I would hope that Universities are seeking out the best person for that subject in that place at that time
any reliance on
well rounded personality
that includes music, arts, sport, travel
is by definition picking wealthier kids and excluding those whose brains might be better suited

Go back 150 years
How many women held top posts?
Were women thick
or were women not given the opportunity?

Mind you isn't one university about to ban all sheet music

Oxford, apparently. I had seen university wants to ban sheet music somewhere, but had assumed it was some new H&S storm in a teacup and moved on without pursuing the article until you mentioned it, @Xenia.

Ban sheet music from what, Frogs?

According to the Telegraph:
Documents reveal that faculty members, who decide on courses that form the music degree, have proposed reforms to address this "white hegemony", including rethinking the study of musical notation because it is a "colonialist representational system".

(I'm signed up to the freebie amount of access to all kinds of things, not a regular Telegraph reader).

However, no actual mention of banning sheet music in the Classicfm report on the subject:

www.classicfm.com/music-news/oxford-university-decolonising-music-syllabus/

And positively untrue, according to AP:
apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9947592002

One can sort of see how the T got the idea, though - and, being them, why they ran with that apparent aspect of it.

May be they need to abolish books next too and writing if they were expanded by the British empire so must be tainted by our enduring wickedness.

More seriously I can understand why you have to be careful what you say. I remember my daughter and i considering what hobbies to put down on her PC once the love of the subject bit was written - would owning a horse (show jumping and being with the horse, being at stables, and mucking it out(with people from all walks of life) was something that most weekends took up about up to 20 hours of her time as a teenager. I think we left it of in case a left wing university lecturer took umbrage and that was even 16 years ago. It has always been a difficult line on which to balance.

For those with children at school I would do the hobbies they like - we did a lot of music as my parents had paid for piano lessons etc and it became and still is my main hobby - I sing and play most days even now in my 50s so for me it was about something I love doing and in a sense made university what it was for me. My school in Newcastle did not even have a choir so I was listening yesterday to Bach's St Matthew Passion - I was nearly 18 in my first term at Manchester University and in the choir and it was the first time in my life I could take part in something like that (yes with privileged "sheet music") -and that was the piece and I could remember yesterday back to that experience. I can remember almost every line, phrase, sound even now nearly 40 years on. I was just absolutely amazed by the music and the sound. If that is privileged well so what. There has been a long tradition in NE England of trying to learn more, of further education classes for adults, art appreciation classes and the like. I had elocution lessons which became speech and drama lessons at school. There is nothing wrong with people pursuing these kinds of things if they want to do so.

I am sure the universities will continue to try to admit those who are the brightest whether they have my 4 grade 8 music exams or they have no hobbies because their circumstances do not allow it.

MarchingFrogs thanks for the links. So it seems like as often happens, university professors decide, let's teach more than just the old white European stuff, let's have more varied and worldwide course material. And then the right wing press reports it as OMG OXFORD BANNING ANYTHING WHITE.

A privately educated (or otherwise obviously wealthy) applicant who hasn't taken advantage of any of the many, many musical, sporting, active, creative or volunteering opportunities laid before them will generally be an exceptionally dull applicant and one who is without the intellectual curiosity to make the most of a competitive course. It's not unreasonable to expect young people to have made the most of opportunities given to them - and equally unreasonable not to penalise those whose school years haven't been as indulgent. I've met students in both categories, and I know which were the safer bet for a top course. So it's perhaps just about showing that you do make the most of the opportunities that are given to you in life.

I think you can stuff a UCAS form with extra-curricular stuff without having to have rich parents.

My son went on school trips overseas which obviously required us to be able to afford them. He also qualified as a lifeguard and we paid for the course.

But if he got a job in a local shop, or cycled to our local athletics track to help at track or field meets, or walked peoples' dogs for them in lockdown when they were shielding, none of that requires well-off parents and all shows initiative and a desire to do something other than sleep and play computer games all day.

Although query why it's not ok to sleep and play computer games all day if you also get your academic work done