Where did the idea come from that extracurricular activities were important for university applications?

[Reallybadidea]

Was it ever true? I applied to universities in the 90s and throughout secondary, my parents were obsessed with me joining clubs, sports teams, DofE so that I'd "have something to put on my UCAS form to show that you're a well-rounded applicant". It still seems to be a popular belief on here that having grade A piano (for eg) will enhance your application.

I get that courses such as medicine, nursing etc need relevant work experience. But the other stuff? Is it/was it ever important?

For uni - my dds part time job ended up being really relevant to her degree which might well have helped with her application

I read around 500 personal statements every year in my role as a senior lecturer to decide who to invite to interviews. I put a lot of stock in personal statements.

I do expect to see some extra curricular/volunteering/work experience in there (it’s a health care degree). More importantly I expect the applicant to have linked that experience to certain attributes such as communication, team working, compassion, working under pressure. What have they learned from this.

But I do always think they could be making the whole thing up! We don’t check!

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone on this thread is saying that extra curricular activities, playing piano, sports etc to a high level or doing DOE or work experience or having a part-time job is pointless or bad - just in case anyone reading this was getting that impression.

These things are really important as part of a broader education and gaining 'life skills', building confidence, getting a better idea of what job you might want to do in future etc. And for some vocational courses (esp healthcare courses as mentioned above) work experience is a really important part of the application process. I think this thread is really just showing that you should take what 'careers advisors' say or advice online about extra curriculars in personal statements with a pinch of salt esp if their advice is generic and not linked to the particular universities or courses you/your DC is applying to (it sounds obvious but I wish someone had told me/my DC this, as above I think we were somewhat misled by a slightly dodgy advisor!).

And in general, if you can't make the link yourself between the course/university you are applying for and what you are writing in your PS about 'extra curriculars' you might be better off keeping it brief and saving the space for something more directly relevant?

@Newgirls

As someone who recruits grads into a prestigious industry I’d say actual work in a cafe, shop, nursing home, childcare etc trumps D of E, grade 8 piano etc.

Being able to hold down a job, work with adults etc is very valuable - I realise that’s tough at the moment but even washing cars etc shows a bit of get up and go

I completely agree. I used to recruit for graduate trainee programme for a city law firm. We were very good at distinguishing between activities that were parent-facilitated and those which showed self-starter tendencies and a bit of personal grit.

Neither of my children had a single interview as part of their UCAS.

Their personal statements were not looked at.

Universities that look for the "right sort of people" are pure snobbery.

Requiring volunteering and internships and other such non productive time is financially exclusive.

As @CovidCorvid above says medicine and other health related degrees/vet med and dentistry are the ones where there would need to be some form of experience based anecdotes within the statements, usually around volunteering at hospitals, St John, animal shelters, care homes but not necessarily county netball.

We were very good at distinguishing between activities that were parent-facilitated and those which showed self-starter tendencies and a bit of personal grit.
The two are n’t mutually exclusive. Nobody would deny that for example becoming a ballet dancer or musician or doing high level sports does n’t take grit, sustained effort as well as talent. However all those would have been facilitated by the parents at least to start with.
A part time job may also be parent facilitated and can take far less time and effort from a teenager than the above extra curricular activities.

I applied to UCCA in early 1980s - I can't remember much about the Personal Statement part

I'm pretty sure that personal statements didn't exist back then. That's wat the interview was for.

What!

Their personal statements were not looked at.

How do you know?

@Dove0709

At an Open Day for Exeter University, we were told they don't even bother reading the personal statements!

That will very much depend on the subject. Some subjects don't use personal statements at the initial offer stage but if it comes to results day and you're borderline it absolutely could come into play. And obviously not all universities follow the same procedures.

I went in 1983 there was definitely a personal statement but it was very short and included such ridiculous things as hobbies and interests to which I think I put that I was president of the school backgammon club and played squash ! You have to remember it was a handwritten form in those days and if I remember correctly had to be filled in with black ink in block capitals

@Etulosba

Their personal statements were not looked at.

How do you know?

Well as one of my children received 4 offers within a few hours of the UCAS being submitted (on a weekend) the evidence would imply that it was all algorithm based on grade predictions

similar for t'other
and their friends on similar courses

There are challenges to volunteering. The dc might have to choose between working to earn money and volunteering. They may not have transport or a regular lift to get them to the volunteering site.
This was my reality as a student and a graduate and it was very difficult to get onto my career path without that volunteering experience but for me, at that time, it wasn't an option.
I now work in an organisation with a large amount of volunteers and I can see that it hasn't really changed.

@Etulosba

I applied to UCCA in early 1980s - I can't remember much about the Personal Statement part

I'm pretty sure that personal statements didn't exist back then. That's wat the interview was for.

I applied in 1985 and completed a personal statement and, with the exception of Oxford, had no interviews.

At one stage it was thought that universities needed to recruit more than 'swots' in order to produce professional who were more than technically proficient.
Science and engineering students were encouraged to show some knowledge and interest in humanities or the arts.

Languages were encouraged. If a chemist is also able to study to Level 8 in an instrument or achieve an A level in German it shows that they can apply their young minds to a broader range.
No amount of parental money can turn a child into a Grade 8 cellist. It needs application as does any other subject.

For clarity we are talking about learned skills not the natural skill of a Mozart.

America

No amount of parental money can turn a child into a Grade 8 cellist. It needs application as does any other subject.
But without the several thousand spare pounds for lessons and exams and an instrument
it cannot be done

I know this is not the question being discussed but whilst extracurricular wasn't important for Uni entry it definitely was for private school entry.

@ListeningQuietly

No amount of parental money can turn a child into a Grade 8 cellist. It needs application as does any other subject. But without the several thousand spare pounds for lessons and exams and an instrument it cannot be done

YY.

There is no good reason to reward a candidate for Grade 8 (unless, obviously, they're studying music, in which case it is relevant). It may require application, but it doesn't demonstrate that the application derives from the candidate rather than the parents. So it has no particular benefit in showing how likely that candidate will be to do well in their subject.

BTW one of my children got a grade 8 with distinction for their own amusement
and never EVER intended to do music beyond school
so even though I had a driven child
it cost me many thousands of pounds
which many other families do not have

Things like music and county sport say much more about parental wealth than innate ability

The whole “well rounded applicant” concept is such a myth

Don’t know why it bothers me, but it does

I know so many of these supposedly “well rounded” kids who did the grade 8 instrument, the DoE, the volunteering in Cambodia

ALL kids like this were pushed by their parents , and ferried around in their 4x4s, to do these things, to become “wel rounded “ and get into the right Uni’s, so they could make the “right friends”. And honestly, whilst most of these pampered teens are harmless and quite nice, they are simply NOT in any way well rounded. My friend’s son was sent home from the orphanage as he was too lazy to clean and wash his own clothes, let alone do any real volunteering. He never wanted to go. His mum made him. Poor orphanage !

The kids who are most mature and well rounded out of my DC’s friends are those who have had to overcome challenges (immigration or refugee background, caring for a disabled sibling whilst mum works night shifts, living with an alcoholic dad).

Lots if Places still feel like “closed shop” and with unwritten incomprehensible rules (as an immigrant here I am always so so grateful for kind Mners helping me figure all this stuff out )

But the well-roundedness is a con

@PrintempsAhoy - that, 100%.

I also think it's quite a nastily disablist idea, being 'well rounded'. Why should you be? If you are the student who is dyslexic and nearly failed English Lit GCSE, does that mean you can't be an excellent engineer? Not at all. And it's the same with all sorts of other disabilities.

@PrintempsAhoy. I’d like to think that people reading personal statements and making decisions can hopefully make such a distinction, I certainly try to.

I once read a PS from someone with no work experience, no volunteering. However she’d been in foster care all her life, she got an interview. The same for the one with no experience but she cared for her disabled mother (no dad on the scene) while juggling school work. Certainly the latter one would have gained a lot of transferable skills from caring for her mum.

I’m also more impressed by someone who has done some regular long term volunteering locally compared to someone who has gone and done someone like Operation Raleigh.

The admissions tutor for DD's course told us that they only looked at personal statements for borderline students.

Medicine and vetmed usually want work or volunteering experience, but I feel that schools put too much importance on extra curriculars and personal statements that universities just ignore.