Is Oxford only for rich families?

[Foslady]

My dd is taking GCSe’s Next year and her school are having various universities in to talk to the pupils. When the Oxford representatives came they mentioned that due to circumstances for one of the colleges there was a very generous bursary you can apply for. This particular college has the course that dd wants to study and now she’s thinking ‘why not?’. I want to support her in all her choices, academically she is quite gifted, and yes, there is a huge time period before university application, but I don’t know if we are the ‘right’ kind of people for Oxford. Up until recently I was a lone parent on a low wage. I now am with my partner but money is still tight (and to be honest if she was awarded the bursary it would be amazing , a massive help). I don’t want to ruin her dreams but at the same time, in reality, are they feasible or am I just kidding myself?

Imperial College London are very generous with their bursaries for students from middle income families;

www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/fees-and-funding/bursaries-and-scholarships/imperial-bursary/

£2,000 - £4,000 pa 'pocket money' would be difficult to turn down if you were a student living with your middle-income parents in London.

"TwoInTents hoorays don't stay on after term in June or come back especially in the middle of September (when they could perfectly well be playing polo), simply to laugh at 'servants' (curiously antiquated language there) in front of prospective 'working class' (ditto) students. What nonsense.

You think that racism is a novel concept to those in charge in Oxford and is allowed - encouraged even - to flourish unchecked?

You think the idea of checking in with PP students and BAME students is a new one?

Please."

Goodbyestranger

I was actually on a tour of a particular college in June and the explanation of bed making came with a distinct dismissive snigger. My Dc was actively shocked. I used the word servant as this is how they seemed to be viewed, rather than the particular word (like 'scout' but not scout) that is used in that college to keep some anonymity for the college, because I don't know if they are all the same. For all I know the term for people who make the beds is used all over Cambridge.

But I was with students from two of our local comps and my observations are their observations.

The very specific incident of racism was not checked or dealt with.

How, in a place that (I quote from the two admissions talks I attended) "is only interested in the very best minds" any racism or class stupidity can exist at all I don't know.

You're welcome.

Clavinova 0 my DC who are very intereste din politics, told me that the Bullingdon has almost died. No one wants to be associated with it any more. No doubt some other self-selecting elite society will spring up.

TwoInTents I think the term is still bedder. My guess - obviously without the benefit of having been there - would be that there was some joke between the students showing you around rather than that they found something funny about the fact of someone doing domestic work for them. After all, if these students were entitled hooray types, then it would be much more normal to them to have someone employed to clean up after them than it would be for their less well off peers, so not actually a source of great mirth. I strongly suspect you're reading something into the incident which wasn't there. The scouts who've been in my own DCs' colleges have overwhelmingly been treated with respect. The students get to know their scouts pretty well, and vice versa.

I also think you're being very optimistic indeed if you really think any university, especially a very large one, is going to be being entirely free of racism or class stupidity, however good the brains of the student body. You haven't really explained what the racist thing was, or what you did to bring it to anyone's attention, so no-one can possibly comment. I don't think a sharp intake of breath is warranted, given that very clearly the college and university authorities don't condone racism.

As goodbye says bedder is the term for the cleaner who comes to their room.

dd finds it a bit awkward having someone cleaning her room, but her bedder is lovely and kind and dd is as tidy and helpful as possible out of respect. They aren't servants, they are paid to do a job as any cleaner is. A servant is someone who does someone else's bidding. If the students don't keep their rooms reasonable then they get into a lot of trouble.

In one Oxford college very recently it was the students who had the back of the scouts when the college authorities tried to make their life tougher re. working hours and conditions.

According to this article, Imperial College London only accepted 50 students from low participation neighbourhoods in 2018 (down from 60 in 2010) and Oxford admitted 90 (up from 15 in 2010);

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/15/government-accused-of-total-failure-to-widen-elite-university-access

What a great debate this has been, thanks for starting it Foslady! Sounds like there are lots of good ideas for improving and broadening access. There are charities out there that work to help with this, maybe some of us with the time or talent should get involved?

In my first year at uni I was in the room next to the guy who set this one up:

www.theaccessproject.org.uk/

I'm sure there are others that operate locally to us providing similar support.

The Social Mobility Foundation does a lot of work to widen aspirations of 6th formers and support university applications - can range from volunteering weekly with a group, to online mentoring and/or reading personal statements and giving feedback. Ideal if you want to volunteer but can't get out the house!

Though not every attempt to broaden the field will pay off. I recall some lads showing round sixth formers at my college, where despite the same ethnic background the two students waxed lyrical about the joys of being away from parents and all the booze and sex, while the pupils found the suggestions a total turnoff. Or another group put off simply because Cambridge is a town not a city, with a lack of desired nightlife - though the bonus is if you start some club, people are likely to come due to lack of alternatives, so that goes both ways on average.