Is Oxford only for rich families?

[Foslady]

My dd is taking GCSe’s Next year and her school are having various universities in to talk to the pupils. When the Oxford representatives came they mentioned that due to circumstances for one of the colleges there was a very generous bursary you can apply for. This particular college has the course that dd wants to study and now she’s thinking ‘why not?’. I want to support her in all her choices, academically she is quite gifted, and yes, there is a huge time period before university application, but I don’t know if we are the ‘right’ kind of people for Oxford. Up until recently I was a lone parent on a low wage. I now am with my partner but money is still tight (and to be honest if she was awarded the bursary it would be amazing , a massive help). I don’t want to ruin her dreams but at the same time, in reality, are they feasible or am I just kidding myself?

My personal statement was certainly influential as it demonstrated my passion for the subject. They dont particularly care about extra curricular but they are v interested in what youve read or think wrt your subject. I had an amazing teacher who helped me with mine and it it was v subject focussed and formed the basis for interview.

"Oxford is not more forgiving than Cambridge on GCSEs, arguably the opposite"
You are absolutely right-my mistake. That'll teach me to post while shovelling horse poo.

Lovely weather for it this morning Bert!

Oxford is open to everyone. Encourage your daughter to look at the summer school for year 12 students UNIQ. it's totally free and if she gets in will be able to spend time studying her chosen subject and staying in a college.

Its a great way to find out more as well as gain support around applying and finance options etc.

Lets be fair though, and living in the real world, OP.
In march 2018, Oxford was once again the university, mainstream, with the lowest number of poor students in the UK.
I believe less then 1% of both kids in care and on FSM, ever darken it or Cambridge's doors.
85%+ of it's successful applicants come the top 2 bands of society wealth, near 50% come from private schools, another 30+% from grammar schools, both well know areas for poor kids to attend, sadly not.
Plus don't forget Stormzy was refused the chance to pay for two poor black kids to attend.
so sure if your one of the 300 or so poor students to go, I am sure oxford is cheap, but seeing 99% don't go it pretty much not a place for poor students.
Sad but true, no matter what they say.
In the real world most poor kids never get to go to university, or go to their local one, as all statistics sadly show.
Let be truthfully here.

Yes but for a child like OP’s dd it isn’t really relevant - she’s well supported, at a good school & is on course for good grades. She will go to a ‘good’ university & I’d argue that she’d be better off at Oxford with short terms, cheap accommodation & college financial support if required that for example at Southampton (RG with highest proportion of state pupils) having to pay £160 a week accommodation fees!

2Boys - But is that because they are discriminated against, or because they either don't get the grades or don't apply because they are put off by the statistics (and people like you)?

Oxford and Cambridge can't take people who don't apply in the first place.

Neither can they take people who have been too badly failed by their current schools to reach the required standard, even allowing for 'contextual' offers.

"In march 2018, Oxford was once again the university, mainstream, with the lowest number of poor students in the UK."

It's self-perpetuating though. I work in one of the Universities mentioned here, the people we want to apply just don't and there's only so much we can do to encourage them. And we do, there are lots of Summer Schools and outreach programmes.

I have had lots of conversations with people who have anecdotally told me about schools who discourage children from applying because "those universities are for rich kids" and here you are perpetuating that myth.

If you have the grades, and in many cases if you don't have the grades but are from a disadvantaged background and have done well despite the odds, both Oxford and Cambridge would look at the application. The only criteria really, for entry, is that you have the potential to be an outstanding student, it is not based on socio-economic background.

Schools and parents have far more sway over where a child will apply than a university - we cannot make people apply, we can only encourage.

And you need only look at another thread running at the moment to see how problematic the issue of not applying because you don't think it's for you is. There's an interesting discussion about some students, in this case from the north of England, thinking they would feel uncomfortable going to a university dominated by students with perceived 'posh' southern accents. My own older son, at an open day at Manchester, was told how posh he was by one girl he'd only just met - he isn't particularly, he just has a run of the mill south-east English accent. There are all sorts of reasons for thinking it's not for you and that will just keep perpetuating the issue.

I must say that I am a bit disappointed by the 'not for the likes of us' fears.
Private school accents doesn't make all of them snobs (some of them, yes but def not the majority).
DD goes to a private school and has a bit of a plummy accent but she is down to earth and has plenty of friends from state schools (I am not even faintly plummy nor are the rest of the family).
She doesn't have endless pots of money to spend - I pay for what she needs (books, travel, school clothes) and she has a Saturday job for everything else. I spend all my money on school fees!

I think she would be horrified if she thought that people from the north/state schools/have different accents would consider her as 'not one of us'.
If your DD has a chance for Oxbridge GO FOR IT.

Firstly a huge thank you for replying to my post - I really, really appreciate it.
Mixing wise I have no fears - she’s more interested in a person than an accent and very grounded! She currently does a couple of volunteering evenings a week and has a hobby where she mixes with people from all backgrounds and that has helped her mix.

I honestly thought it would be way out of our financial situation but from what everyone has said that isn’t the case. I appreciate everyone has a different experience, but now knowing that it is plausible, it has given her an extra reason to push herself even more than she already does. She is very focused on getting good results, and just because they have predicted the grades doesn’t mean she’ll settle for that grade - she’s determined to prove them wrong, especially in her A level choice subjects!

Even though we know it is heavily over subscribed, depending on how the next two/three years go I think it’s worth a shot if it’s what she wants, and she’ll get all the help and support I can offer (limited as it is!)

She’ll only be the second one in our immediate family that has gone to university. I’d dreams of it, but also a mother that declared ‘it’s alright for girls as they can just get married......’

Have you heard of the Sutton Trust? They do things to help disadvantaged students.

Also, you might find this article interesting:
www.suttontrust.com/newsarchive/low-expectations-are-keeping-bright-pupils-away-from-oxbridge/

Oh thank you! I’ll have a read of that tonight (back in work in a few mins!!!!!)

@bpisok
That other thread made laugh, a northern Dd is struggling, I presume her DM, post Oxford isn't for working class northerns, and loads of MC rich southerners, with "so called blended northern kids" came on to say no it's not. Though they had lived in London/Se for 18 years and attended posh schools. SORRY BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A CLUE.
My lad is at Lincoln, 700 students on his course, bulk of them southerners, he is most northern, he finds it hard, he says they talking a different language and do different things, not surprisingly most of his new friends are from the midlands.
@Enb76
I know this is just my experience, of a coastal Yorkshire comprehensive, with 1900 students. But of the year 13 just left with Ds1, 4 applied to both OX and CAM, all the cleverest, 3 never got an interview, 1 didn't get in. It the same pretty much for the last 15 years, think 3 have made it, and one went elsewhere instead. As DS1 says, if Potts, doesn't get an interview, and Issie, with straight A's at Gcse and A and A's at A level doesn't get an offer why bother.
This year, of the really bright kids we know none have bother applying, all same the same. Think York, Newcastle, Lancaster, Edinburgh and Glasgow instead.
So is it really not for us, or actually you don't take my friends, so actually why bother. Chicken and egg surely.
In our area OX and Cam never come to any of our local 6 comprehensives, but the 2 posh privates and the most selective 6th form, most of our schools first meet you at local university UCAS fair in Year 13. OP said you went to her DD's grammar, why?
Surely you are looking in wrong places, maybe if you employed kids who never applied or went, your outreach might find the kids, who never go.
Because around us it sadly isn't for kids like us.
Sorry but I love for kids to go, but FGS don't blame poor kids, when even when their mates apply you reject them

I'm another who can offer reassurance that Oxbridge is for everyone. dd went to a comprehensive school. It's very possible to live there much more affordably than many other universities - accomodation can be paid for term time only and can be pretty reasonable, they don't need public transport and food is subsidised. Cambridge give extra nonpayable bursary's to everyone under a certain income.

I’m afraid there’s more to getting an Oxbridge place than grades. Loads of applicants have the grades at GCSE and are predicted top grades at A level.

I would look at the advice the school is giving. I would suggest their personal statements are not strong enough and they have not been able to write enough about what they have done to support their applications. From what you say, they are not getting to Durham, UCL and some of the other first division Russell Group universities either. They may also not be strong enough in the pre tests such as HAT, etc. These test a young person’s ability to think around the subject and likely ability to study it successfully and again, success in these isn’t the same as GCSE results and predicted grades.

Many independent schools invite pupils from all local schools to an area Oxbridge talk. My DDs school did. It’s rarely exclusive. Again this is the comprehensive not really engaging in the process. Why don’t they invite Oxbridge admissions tutors? They can do this and work with the other 5 schools on the event. The truth is, they are not really interested. If they were they would be leading in getting their pupils up to speed about the tests, their personal statements and getting the briefing sessions organised. You cannot sit back. As they have discovered it doesn’t happen unless you make an effort.

It’s such a shame young people have become so tribal and think other young people are not the same as them. This is just so ridiculous. It’s a problem for social
Mobility, effective working relationships in the future and rather immature. Of course young people should make an effort to understand others. How on earth do people from London and the south “talk another language”. The mind boggles that there is such discrimination and prejudice taking place against other students based on their perceived class and where they live! What has happened to us? Are we really now a society where such views are held to be normal and the fault of those who come from an area that you don’t know? Would he think the same about the Scots, the Welsh and Irish etc? What about Nigerians and Chinese students? Having views about others that are so negative when you have only been at university for a few weeks is simply wrong. If you said this about someone based on religion or colour there would be trouble but MC southerners are fair game? Hopefully in his intended career as a Police Officer this attitude will be challenged because it’s not acceptable.

The other thing is that some (most) of the publicly schooled and well off at Oxford are actually, you know, very nice people. A bloke that I initially tagged as a pink-shirted Hooray Henry has become a long-term friend. He didn't choose his upbringing or the family he was born into any more than any of us did.

2boys, I literally can't make head or tail of a lot of your post, but are you really saying it's Oxbridge's fault that your DS can't get along with people from the South and that a few students you know of from one single Northern school didn't get in?

If your child keeps getting the grades and she's keen, go for it! I'm sure you and everyone else knows it's not a dead certainty getting in to Oxbridge unless you are some kind of erudite genius, but just give it a try.

I went to Cambridge from a dodgy comp/first person in family to study beyond 16 blah blah situation (and I'm not an erudite genius) and it was great - so many of my dear friends are from those days. To be honest, if your daughter is at a grammar, she's already way closer to that world that I was.

I'd just check out the colleges and not go for one of the uber-posh ones, as that would be a little bit weird.

Can I clear up the 'good personal statement' misconceptions a bit?

A personal statement isn't there to demonstrate 'passion' or to feature lots of extra-curricular activities that aren't directly relevant to the subject being studied. Interviewers are also well aware of what kinds of activities cost money, too, and will take that into account.

It is actually far more important to write a good PS for the other universities you're applying to, as most of them don't have the capacity to interview everyone, and many will be basing their decision only on that statement, grades, and references.

I've interviewed for a couple of colleges, and every time we really, really want to admit as diverse a group of students as possible. We try really hard to give students a fair chance. I sometimes think people imagine that Oxbridge interviewers must be quite posh and snobby people who enjoy letting in public-school students and shutting everyone else out, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

2boys, young adults from dd’s school have got in for the last 9 years. I look at my life and I tell her to treat it as a warning - I don’t want her ever to struggle like I have.
She went to the grammar because it was what SHE wanted - I was very doubtful about it, again thinking it wasn’t for kids like ours. She was told she could do the 11+ but I couldn’t afford Tito, it would be buying the packs of papers the school recommended and working through those. The school had no tutoring sessions either. When she was told she had a place I still wasn’t convinced thinking that I’d rather have her higher in the class at the local comp than fighting against the top 30% in the area. But it was what she wanted, her life choice and you know what? She is at the top Set of the year - within the top 10 for all, higher for the lessons she loves. She has proved to me how hard she can work. It’s my time to repay that back and keep supporting her choices.

Sorry for that being ranty - I know grammars have a bad press for their selection but it really has worked in dd’s case, she is the kind of kid they were set up for

Please encourage her-

I was first in my family to uni, went to grammar school, and didn’t even think about oxford until one of my teachers mentioned it who had been there. Despite being a grammar lots of inaccurate shite was shared by other teachers, and they hadn’t had anyone go for ages.

I ended up working all holidays. Agree - the short terms are great if you need to work. I’m older than the new system, but they even gave me a “job” in college so I could earn money during terms during yr2.

The availability of books and papers is great, think I bought 1 book the whole 4 years

Mainly - and upon reflection - I realised how many more experiences are out there I hadn’t been exposed to before going there, and how many jobs (including the one I have now) I had never heard of

Truely life changing

Bloody hell. Go on admission for Oxford. All 6 local schools have had less the 12 students go in all the years Oxford cover.
Our sixth has employed a head or sixth from the pruvate school sector, he went to Oxford, he has contacts, he works with other local schools, no one atill fets in.
But funnily enough Oxford can still find room for 50% of all appliciants from Eton, Westminister, etc, etc.
Our school is semi rural, next to a city with aome of the poorest estates in Britain and coastal. All Ofstled flags for struggling achools. Most are kids going university for first time.
But Oxford still rejects them, from a school whuch is in special measures and in bugget crisis. My son had 45% of his yr 13 geography classes cancelled, lack of staff and staff training. Highest grade a B in the class.
Bolocks to it been open to all

Highest grade a B in the class.

Surely that is the issue? The secondary schooling. That is not Oxford's fault. There is only so much they can drop grade requirements by, as the students admitted still need the prior knowledge/skills to succeed. Don't blame Oxford for failings lower down the education system.

By the way bubbles, knows Ds1 isnt at Oxford, hes at an ex poly, having the time of his life. But his flatmates sre all from Lincolnshire and South Yorkshire.
As for a different language what are
A tsnfoot,
Tea
When do you have dinner.
What is maffing, trannies, want dows "is your phone branny?"
He.has lived in an area where 90% of us where born here. It is a culture shock..
He has great RL team mates from Germany, Nigeria and Cyprus. He works in an seminar group with girls from Cambridge, Essex and Kent. Plus Milton Keynes and Barnsley.
They have equally stuck to their close areas too. Now 9 weeks in they are all understanding each other.

As for the police; seeing he is just has happy to look after the Lord Luitenant of Yorkshire and the Lord Mayor and heads of local government, as he is spending weekends, all night challenges and numerous days working with homeless and youth/adult offenders, I am sure he will fit in perfectly. Seeing understanding the latter tends to be fairly high on a bobbies duties