Is Oxford only for rich families?

[Foslady]

My dd is taking GCSe’s Next year and her school are having various universities in to talk to the pupils. When the Oxford representatives came they mentioned that due to circumstances for one of the colleges there was a very generous bursary you can apply for. This particular college has the course that dd wants to study and now she’s thinking ‘why not?’. I want to support her in all her choices, academically she is quite gifted, and yes, there is a huge time period before university application, but I don’t know if we are the ‘right’ kind of people for Oxford. Up until recently I was a lone parent on a low wage. I now am with my partner but money is still tight (and to be honest if she was awarded the bursary it would be amazing , a massive help). I don’t want to ruin her dreams but at the same time, in reality, are they feasible or am I just kidding myself?

That’s a better way of putting it, Goodbyestranger. I think superficial notions really can be addressed before application. Most people can go and have a look round and decide if the university is for them and consider how to overcome any barriers that might exist. It really all comes back down to the confidence to get past pre conceived ideas, often pushed by others, and find out for yourself if a place is ok. If people cannot flourish in a new environment then there will never be greater social mobility.

Why is there snobbery misdingstreetlife? Who is a snob? Some people might think it’s the DS of a road sweeper who has got above his station in life and gone to university to study Politics. Or the DD of a hairdresser who has taken an interest in history of art (heaven forbid!) These words are just thrown around at young people like angry confetti. All young people at any university are trying to learn. They come from different backgrounds. They come from different schools and have had differing experiences of life but they are coming together to learn and widen their knowledge. Labelling people is what we delight in doing in this country and it sets us back years.

"It really all comes back down to the confidence to get past pre conceived ideas,"

How do you think people acquire that confidence?

But Bubbles the pushing of pre-conceived ideas and outdated notions derived from the BBC version of Brideshead in 1982 and widely shared photos of Boris and his Bullingdon friends from 1987 is actually a real problem. The people like Bertrand who are so insistent that it's nigh on impossible for less well off sixth formers to apply/ get offers/ flourish do far more harm than good. I don't know where Bertrand gets her in depth knowledge of contemporary Oxford from, but it doesn't resonate with what I know. Things have moved on since the '80's when Bertrand was at uni, when the new generation of 'Bright Young Things' at Oxford were a big thing in the press.

Bertrand it's not only ponies etc which boost confidence. I really do find you patronise those who are less well off than yourself massively, and stereo type even more.

Oxford discourages students from working, that’s why it has the reputation it has amongst poorer students. It’s also the number 1 reason why poorer minority students often choose US universities on account of the scholarships — a lot of the young people in my extended family have gone to Harvard and other Ivy leagues instead of UK universities.

The Moritz-Heyman Scholarship at Oxford for those on the lowest incomes (below £16,000) is worth £6,700, which is far more than any other scholarship from any other UK university. The maintenance grant of £3,700 far exceeds what any student could possibly earn across 24 weeks of full term (it computes as £154 pw tax free, so holiday earnings won't be cumulative). It's worth finding out, not assuming.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/fees-and-funding/oxford-support/moritz-heyman-scholarship

She will get to know a lot of people who are going to be politicians, lawyers, journalists and influential in society

And she may well become one of them.

Precisely OYBBK, that's why I said I assumed she was taking the mickey.

She must be. It's a very bitter thing to say otherwise.

Very bitter and very strange. Are you saying she will never be accepted by the people there, missing?

Oxford discourages students from working, that’s why it has the reputation it has amongst poorer students. It’s also the number 1 reason why poorer minority students often choose US universities on account of the scholarships — a lot of the young people in my extended family have gone to Harvard and other Ivy leagues instead of UK universities

I cannot imagine that any UK student with the self-confidence to apply for an academic scholarship to Harvard etc. being the slightest bit intimidated by an Oxford Quad. Americans love self-confidence - UK applicants are likely to be Head Boy/Head Girl, Head of the Debating Society/Science Society, Editor of the School Magazine... Grade 6 clarinet and Duke of Edinburgh Award will also be a bonus. And what about the reputation of American Fraternities?

Clavinova I think the numbers of UK students from less well off backgrounds going to Harvard is still considerably less than the numbers going to Oxford and Cambridge. It's not a realistic option for most given that so many schools haven't got a clue about the process for the US - it's just not on their radar. There's been a push from Harvard I know but less well off UK students are certainly not currently going to Harvard in droves. I'm impressed that Cherries's family sends 'lots'.

I thought the likes of Harvard and US Ivy leagues where now the refuge of the poor Eton, Winchester College, St Pauls Boys and Girls, Roedean students who where been discriminated (wrongly) by those nasty Oxford and Cambridge communists

Sorry posted too soon
That's what I have read on mumsnet top private school threads.
When a great uncle asked about either of ours or Bil Dc studying in Canada, Ontario, MIL brother's family live there, from 1950, it would cost over £45000 to get a degree in Ontario, and that's meant to be cheaper than US, and no student loan available and scholarships are really quite rare.
Even I admit Oxford and Cambridge are much better options for UK poor and have much fairer funding

Indeed - 'poor' UK scholars applying to Harvard seems unlikely - impoverished (and educated) middle class - perhaps.

Oxford's ethnicity stats are here;
www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity?wssl=1

Regional stats regarding A level grades here;
www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students?wssl=1

One point to note about Imperial College London is that almost 30% of its undergraduate students are non-UK - International students (non EU) pay much more in fees of course - over £30,000 pa. Imperial are often criticised for being a bit mercenary when it comes to fees.

No, Harvard has excellent bursaries.

I know someone who was a migrant from soviet Russia who studied there in the early 2000s; she keeps in touch and they have a steady stream of students who come from similar backgrounds.

In Tower Hamlets Harvard alumni (from Canary) Wharf are often requested to help students apply (some requests are received directly from Harvard after they’ve been contacted; others from schools). A good student can often get 100 percent of their fees and sometimes even accomodation covered. It’s definitely a big thing in London. Likely to get bigger post-Brexit.

Cherries the state schools in our area have been approached too. I'm interested in the conversion to places. One of DS1's closest friends from school who was exceptionally bright - and I mean super exceptionally bright - won a fully funded place to Princeton but her family was very highly educated and her siblings were already at Cambridge. She had everything funded although did work on campus - that's standard. A couple of other students were encouraged and have had help in the pre application phase but didn't win places. These schemes need to result in places, or they're of very limited use in raising aspiration - they merely raise disillusion instead if almost no fully funded places result.

Harvard A good student can often get 100 percent of their fees and sometimes even accomodation covered. It’s definitely a big thing in London.
I hate to burst the bubble of this perception of Harvard and like accepting hordes of deserving students from the UK.
This link to the Harvard International Office
www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics
shows that at Harvard College (ie Harvard undergraduates) there are 9 scholars from the UK and 84 students without scholarships. That is for all four years.
Hardly ‘often’ and a ‘big thing’.

There is an excellent book on applying to Oxbridgr. Really explains the collegiate system and what you need to do at each stage. Will see if i can find the link for you. Good luck to your dd!

Here you go
www.amazon.co.uk/Oxbridge-Entrance-The-Real-Rules/dp/0954594479/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=oxbridge+entrance+the+real+rules&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1401362348&sr=8-2

An anecdote I have used before on here, so those so inclined es can mock and disregard. A parent at ds's school (a very caring and committed parent who wanted the best for their child) asked me where to get 11+ revision books for their child. I said that the nearest place was Waterstones. I discovered later that they had gone in to the shop, not known where to look, and had been so intimidated by the staff, the other customers and the atmosphere that they had run away. Do you really think someone like that could take their child and "show them a quad"? Some people on here have no idea.

@sendsummer - the data says 272 students from the UK and 183 scholars. Need to point out that this goes by passport data. Many London born and bred students in deprived areas don’t have British passports and so might not be classed as such. Remember it’s harvard and so not everyone who applies gets in— but it is easier for a disadvantaged minority student to get into Harvard than Oxbridge. Not just Harvard recruiting in the UK. All Ivy leagues are

When we contacted Harvard for information on their data assumptions a few months back they estimated that roughtly 15-30 percent of their entire overseas applications (all nationalities) may have originated from students permanently resident in the UK. That’s huge.

Cherries I think you're failing to filter for Harvard and then for scholars.