Is Oxford only for rich families?

[Foslady]

My dd is taking GCSe’s Next year and her school are having various universities in to talk to the pupils. When the Oxford representatives came they mentioned that due to circumstances for one of the colleges there was a very generous bursary you can apply for. This particular college has the course that dd wants to study and now she’s thinking ‘why not?’. I want to support her in all her choices, academically she is quite gifted, and yes, there is a huge time period before university application, but I don’t know if we are the ‘right’ kind of people for Oxford. Up until recently I was a lone parent on a low wage. I now am with my partner but money is still tight (and to be honest if she was awarded the bursary it would be amazing , a massive help). I don’t want to ruin her dreams but at the same time, in reality, are they feasible or am I just kidding myself?

There is a youtuber called Eve Bennett - look her up. She’s not from a wealthy background and has done lots of videos on the application and interview process and is now documenting her first year there.

Yes, I am incredibly privileged. And so are my children. That’s how I know that the road my children walk is an order of magnitude easier than the road walked by many of their contemporaries. And why I am infuriated by people in similar positions who try to claim otherwise.

My dc have scouse accents so they will have to work hard to get people to see past that. That’s their reality.

What do you hope to gain from that fury Bert?

Also, I don't come across many people who claim that. Is it a Kent thing?

There is a significant lexical difference between “admitting” (which makes it sound like an issue) and acknowledging. Why should privilege not be acknowledged? DD is privileged by being in our family and going to a good school. She is disadvantaged by her life before she came to us. I think I am very keen for people to acknowledge where they are fortunate because I see how my DDs lives could have very easily been so different. I maintain that DD would most likely not have got straight A*s throughout her time at school had she not been removed from her original home environment, and would not have had the chance, confidence, or encouragement and support to apply to the universities she’s been able to get places had.

I am privileged. I would certainly not have succeeded as well had I not got into grammar school (NI system), had my parents not been able to afford to take me to all those things that make for a ‘rounded’ education and supported my academic endeavours. I’m sure I would not have ended up at an RG university without these advantages because I’m by no means extraordinary and probably wouldn’t possess the resolve to overcome challenges, and I see no reason why I’d be ashamed to acknowledge that. Being aware of privilege does not have to mean being ashamed of it.

I agree with ontopofthesunset.

You don't choose your parents; you tend not to choose your school.
This is very true and I think Bertram pointed this out about J Corbyn when someone said he’d been to prep school.
However using ‘posh’ as an insult is an easy and lazy way out for many.

I’d say I’m in the same boat as Bertrand and honestly can’t see why that should be criticised. Caring about social injustice does not mean hating ‘posh’ people...

“Also, I don't come across many people who claim that. Is it a Kent thing?”

Sorry, i’m not going to engage. I think you know what I mean- faux naïveté is deeply tedious.

“However using ‘posh’ as an insult is an easy and lazy way out for many.”

Yes- and it would be a very strange thing for me in paricular to do. People who do the reverse are usually much more subtle about it-there are a million ways of saying “not quite our sort”!

Nope Bert you've genuinely got me. I don't come across a whole load of middle class parents who say their kids have never had it so tough. I'm not even convinced you know what your own beef is. It seems very nebulous, whatever it is. Do you just get furious or do you try to do something positive to help in some way?

I care about social injustice for sure. But using circumstance that are not ideal as a reason not to even try is equally perplexing i.e 'it's not for the likes of us' type comments.

I keep mentioning the UNIQ summer school Dd attended this summer, I know I do, but she was the only person in her school that applied and all the Y12's got the same email. All the students could have had a go.

I'm absolutely not directing these comments at any individual on here at all. I just think that fact in of itself such a shame as sometimes the opportunity is there for the person the grasp, but that they have to choose to do so and not be blinkered by preconceptions, which for me work both ways.

It is indeed a complicated subject, which Oxbridge type threads seem to highlight very well!

“I just think that fact in of itself such a shame as sometimes the opportunity is there for the person the grasp, but that they have to choose to do so and not be blinkered by preconceptions,”

As easy as that? I think you are rather making my point. Of course they should not be blinkered by preconceptions- but they are. They can’t just turn them off!

Of course, you can't be more or less privileged than you are and it's completely understandable at the most basic level that someone from Eton or Westminster is more comfortable in an ancient quad than someone who hasn't ever seen an ancient quad, never mind the rest of the barriers to applying to Oxbridge.

When I first met an Etonian at university I was astonished that they actually existed - I thought of them as almost mythical beings, since Eton was a byword for incredibly posh. And I was a girl whose mother was a primary school teacher and lived on a 1930s semi-detached estate in a genteel London suburb and had gone to a private school on an assisted place scheme, so I was pretty privileged.

Nothing against Etonians, by the way, as the one I met was a very humble, quiet and gentle guy who never wanted to mention his school or that he had been a Kings Scholar. But the power of all sorts of brands is strong, and the Oxbridge brand is, like Eton, for many people a representation of unattainable elitism.

Racecardriver Ok, maybe some effect of ‘keeping girls close to home” but that doesn’t explain the difference between the attendance (as witnessed by us on 2 Open Days) at Open Days and the level of applications and those who actually get in.

Or the lamentably low entry stats of Students of Black / African /Caribbean background . And reputed low application, despite, again, seeing several on our Open Days.

The stats are very exposing, and none of it is ever explained as anything other than being some factor within the student rather than the College or University.

Maybe the top performing young people I know who were thoroughly alienated and have chosen Imperial, UCL, etc could be asked for their recommendations.

Hi, take a look at the Uniq summer schools, particularly if you are from a school which does not send kids to Oxford. www.uniq.ox.ac.uk/ Sorry do not know how to do clicky thing.

DS’s very lovely GF went to Oxford after attending this and said it was brilliant.

Bright, hardworking people go to Oxford. When you are there, there will be some people your daughter doesn’t like - I bet there are some in her school. Her new friends won’t give a toss if she is rich or poor.

I don't think that I am making your point; the UNIQ summer school is designed for state school students, with low Acorn and Polar scores, both of which apply to DD.

Ohallright, I concur, DD had an amazing week. From the group chat that she still participates in, the majority of students on her course are applying, albeit not necessarily for exactly the subject they studied at UNIQ.

Applications open for Y12's early December and I'd encourage anyone to apply. At the very least, it's a practice university application in that you have to write a PS etc and get a school reference etc.

@Foslady I hope your dd applies to Oxford. My dd is there and has a diverse friendship group as she participates in lots of sport and drama. Don’t be put off by your background as university is a short period of time in life and coping in the big world after university is a bigger issue in my view.

Well all I would say is give it a go. I know some are completely put off applying to Oxbridge and those who find if they get there how much any preconceptions are quickly dispelled. My point is the latter. Ds went a very well regarded school & Dh and I were supportive. He was lucky. It didn't get him the place but it made him think he was perfectly entitled to give it a shot. So I do not underestimate that - just trying to encourage those whose DCs are nervous about the environment if they were to go to not worry about that aspect.

Oh and when asked " where do you ski " Ds replies - tried it once , didn't like it. He simply says that if people are going to dislike him, dislike him for himself , & just get on with it and lets all move on - bye and large it doesn't happen.

So - yes young people can be blinkered by preconceptions but the only point of my post is that for those who are a bit " should I , shouldn't I ?" then concentrate more on researching the entrance process and less on worrying about not being able to make friends if it all works out well. After all , there will be as big a range of students from different schools at the likes of Warwick , Edinburgh , Exeter , Bristol , the London colleges etc. ( My list is not exhaustive). Not sure actually Goodbye if DS had a friend with a Devon burr - perhaps you have found the flaw in my argument - you know I joke.

I had a fab time there but it did take me a term to adjust. I came from a non private school middleclass family but it was still such a culture shock. In my college it seemed everyone had brothers or friends already at Oxford and in the quiz night in the first week they already knew of Oxford traditions/number of colleges.

My favourite anecdote from the first few weeks was going rowing and being asked "what school did you go to?" I replied wondering how on earth she might have heard of it - only later did I realise that people from well known private schools knew of other well known private schools/siblings played them at sport etc.

A lot that is obvious to me now/ mumsnetters really isn't to those not from an Oxbridge background. I was superbright but not from London/ private school/ rich family (although a parent was at boarding school.) If I found it hard that first term how many million times more would it be for someone with less of a background than even I had...

However it was fantastic. I loved learning there. I wish I'd had more self esteem to make more of some of the opportunities. But that really is hindsight. It wasn't until meeting up with schoolfriends at christmas that I realised how different Oxford was and how much harder work it was and how different the student life was! In many ways I perhaps would have suited more classes rather than the freedom to hide away and not see any one, but academically I absolutely loved it and dont regret going at all.

Ds reckons in 3 years perhaps twice has he ever been asked as an introductory or early remark which school he came from - certainly no more than could be counted on one hand and probably fewer ( Can I say again - once there, with similar interests , in the same hall / staircase / course and then societies / clubs / sports etc - in Ds's opinion if you make friends with similar interests and sense of humour etc it tends to work ) Oxford is not jam packed with Bullingdon boors ( well good news for DS - he can break a plate with the best of them but it tends to be accidental rather than deliberate with a dinner jacket on )

So OP there is really no "right type" - if your Dc wants to go to university then Oxford is as good as any other and there is no "right type" undergraduate or indeed parent there . ( Parents are increasing irrelevant as DCs go to any university )

Sorry - I did not mean to say parents are irrelevant to the DC I just meant they ( the students) tend to make their own way without reference to parents.

Basilisk I only had it in the first few weeks - of course people are establishing things in common and if you've come from that world it would be a normal question (along with what A levels you did in our case ). After the first term people didnt really ask that kind of thing!

But it stands out as the sort of thing that was assumed common background initially and yet completely foreign to me at the time!

The “where did you go to school” question isn’t exclusive to Oxbridge. I was asked that when I went to a non RG university. School is their most recent experience. Other questions will include: “what did you do on your gap year”, “what do your parents do”, “what sport do you play” etc... the answers to these are all social markers. People look for their tribe and in any university you will find a bunch of posh kids because that’s what they’re comfortable with. It’s no fun being sneered at for being either end of the social spectrum. I actually believe that, in Cambridge at least, being so academically focused there is a certain amount of awe for those who have succeeded academically despite the odds. I’m not talking historically but about the students I see passing through the doors now. I see very little of the hooray attitude these days although I caveat that I work in department and not in a college.