DS major fail... wwyd? Totally pissed off

[Troublesometuesday]

In brief .....

DS was at RG London uni doing an engineering course.

In June, he told us he’d failed his degree. And whilst we we were shocked and disappointed, tried to figure out how best to support him.
Now, we finally know the truth of the situation, which is pretty shocking tbh...

-Failed a second year exam

• had four warnings about non-attendance at tutorials/practicals

-transferred onto ordinary degree at end of Yr2

We knew NONE of this!!!

Then, he failed two exams in final year and also failed his dissertation.

Now, whilst most of you will say, what an idiot.... my anger/fury/disappointment is not only directed at him, but also the fact that by treating students as adults, there is no way to intervene at all until it is too late.

To get a degree, DS has to go into 2nd year at another uni. So, never mind the fact that we have supported him fully for the past 3 years, he would get some funding for the coming year, but none at all for what would be the 5th year if a 3yr course....

Btw, at school he was a bright and able student who got 3 A’s - so, if ever there is a warning to other parents, this is it. They can lie, squander money, lie, don’t work, lie some more and fail then miserably.

I just don’t know what to do - of course I want him to achieve in life, but I am so hurt and can’t trust him any more.

" Uni is for adults. Full stop. If someone needs their mummy or daddy's help to get through it, they're not ready for it "

considering how much 'mummy and daddy' need to cough up these days for a child to go to uni, that is a pretty silly comment.

considering how much 'mummy and daddy' need to cough up these days for a child to go to uni, that is a pretty silly comment

Mummy and daddy don't need to cough up, why do people keep posting erroneous stuff when they clearly have no inkling about the options to pay for uni..

don't they?

There is no point being angry at the university. It is not school, they don't send letters home to mum and dad when the student isn't attending/performing. The gave him warnings and he chose to ignore them.

A university education is about independent study. If he is not disciplined enough to do that then unfortunately he is not qualified to hold a degree.

if a business is sponsoring a student through their degree how much are they told about the students attendance and grades by the university? Or does the student themselves have to give the company evidence in order for the funding to continue

I did an employer sponsored degree. I had to agree to allow the university to share my information. It was made very clear that my sponsor would be informed of any poor attendance of fail grades.

I do think there outüght to be something similar in place for any funded, regardless of wether they are parent or not.

Parents may not be physically forced to pay out for their adult children at university but depending on income there is a clear expectation from the government that they will.

This is a screenshot from the official Student Finance England guide found here

Four, no, they don't. Then student can take out both a student loan for fees and living expenses. If the maintenance loan (living expenses) isn't enough, they can supplement by working. Parents don't need to contribute at all and many don't.

The government can expect all they want, no one "has" to support their kid through uni. Every kid can get fees on loan, irrelevant of parents income and it's maintenance that's assessed on parents income, but even kids with rhe richest parents can loan over 3.5k per year.

It happens all the time. In my experience (which I have a lot of in this instance) he can't cope with university and needs to look at another avenue. If he's not managed two courses then he probably won't manage a third.

Bluntness of course no parents have to support their kids but look at the figures for maintenance loan's for the 2018 to 2019 academic year:

Living at home - Up to £7,324
Living away from home, outside London - Up to £8,700
Living away from home, in London - Up to £11,354
You spend a year of a UK course studying abroad - Up to £9,963

The average cost of self-catered halls is £5K for forty weeks at my local university and £4K for the same period in a student house.

The maintenance loan is means-tested on parental income so there is an assumption that the parents will contribute. Also, some universities recommend students not working in the final year of study.

Just wondering, does he get to keep the credits for the modules he has passed in the 2nd and 3rd years? If so could he use credit transfer to the OU so he can just kind of fill in the gaps?

His tuition loan might stretch to cover it all depending on how many credits he has actually failed.

Stop supporting him fgs.
If he really wants to return to a degree he can do it himself, once he has worked and got some cash behind him.

South, many parents don't, the government don't check, many kids work to support themselves through uni.

There might be an assumption that parents will contribute but they don't have to.

Many parents either cannot afford it or do not want to spend their income on it.

It's perfectly possible for students to support themselves. As I said, mine do.

TroublesomeTuesday you’ve had a lot of advic3 about sympathy for you don, and possible MH, depression, girlfriend, drugs etc issues that might have made him do this and to be sympathetic to him.

You know your son best, and will parent him based on that knowledge.

But from my perspective, the yelling and guilt trip I got at the end of first year uni was my wake up call and set me on the path to adulthood. I spent the rest of the summer working out how I would fix it (my parents were happy to discuss it with me, but I had to come up with the information and plans and then spent the rest of my degree aiming for the top. I have the result and work history to prove it.

If my parents had patted my shoulder, let me cry and fixed it for me, I think it would have stunted my growth. I would have run to them next time to fix things, and the next time and never realised the reserve within me and the heights I could scale. These have far exceeded anything I did at school (although good).

I’m not saying you need to yell at your son. But you need to think carefully about your response, and is it teaching him to be an adult or not? Clearly to date his response is to lie (by omission or flat out) and stick his head in the sand. You need to change that behaviour, as regardless of whether he finishes this degree or not, or works in this field or not, there will be hard things in the rest of his life, and he needs to face them head on, and not stick his head in the sand.

Forgive the typos and grammatical mistakes! Typing on an iPhone.

My DS (now 43) did similar. Didn't tell me he was struggling and kept talking as if everything was fine. His was a 4 year course and I only found out when Uni wouldn't let him start Yr4 until his Uni accommodation bill for the previous term was paid and he had to retake exams. He didn't tell me this, I found a letter in his room and it all came out. I paid up and he resat and passed the exams. I felt I'd failed as a parent as he didn't feel he could confide in me.
He did get his degree but he still buries his head in the sand if he has a problem. Fortunately his wife is now the one who has to pick up the pieces and bail him out.

Many parents either cannot afford it or do not want to spend their income on it

Exactly. No policeman comes round your house demanding you give your kid living money. There is no have to about it. Plenty. And I mean plenty, of kids take loans and supplement their maintenance grants by working.

Another vote for time out. Even bright students hit a point that their hearts just aren’t in it. Pressing on without a break (and opportunity for some different life experience) is likely to be a mistake. He may accept your help to do this in principle, but he’s not likely to become suddenly re-motivated if he couldn’t find his academic mojo over the past few years.

Speaking from experience -I did well at school, well at uni (1st), got a good Masters and suddenly during PhD just couldn’t find it in myself to do anything more. Literally wasted a couple of years sleeping in, staying up late watching tv, staring meaninglessly at a computer, surfing the web. I just couldn’t find the motivation anymore. Only once this happened to me could I recognise the total loss of motivation that had seen off bright friends at various stages of uni and PG study. There were a few options to rescue it, but I walked away instead being old enough to know myself and know i’d waste those chances too.

Really OP at this point, it’s really important to encourage him to make the next step of his plan, including how it will be funded. And time out working is a reasonable plan.

You need to understand why it happened and what has changed to mean it won't happen again.
This sort of scenario could be concealing depression or low self worth and the evidence shows young men often attempt suicide with little warning when under heavy academic pressure/sense of failure.
Yes he's deceived you, wasted your money, and been an idiot. He needs to act differently in future and learn some lessons. But you need to work out if he's just been a jerk or has been struggling to cope. Extra pressure could be the worst thing to do, making him feel more of a failure and suffering low self esteem for years.

This sounds difficult for both of you. I agree with posters who say encouraging him to get a job would be a good thing. A year in full time work will give him time to think about what he wants to do next.

How has he got on at his summer job? If he's enjoyed that and has succeeded at it maybe academia just isn't for him and work is the best next step?

I think he needs to sort this out. If he wants to start a new course he can sort it and if he works to fund it he may realise how important it is not to fuck it up. Or he can get a job. He's in his 20s now so he needs to figure out what he wants to do and not what he feels is expected of him.

No policeman comes round your house demanding you give your kid living money. There is no have to about it. Plenty. And I mean plenty, of kids take loans and supplement their maintenance grants by working.

I think you mean maintenance loan.

And yes, most People do take a loan to cover fees, and then a maintain loan. And then many work part time. But even so, most parents see they need to provide extra funds. No one forces me to give my children anything, I could make them use an old carrier bag as their school bag if I wanted to, and give them a lump of coal for Christmas, but it would be a really shitty thing to do if I could afford to provide for them.

Anf if I don't provide for DS, or he's unable to find part time work he'll starve, or at least drop out of uni. So, actually I do have to give him living money.

But even so, most parents see they need to provide extra funds

We payed for our child, but I can categorically assure you it wasn't the norm, many kids get nothing from their parents. Not a bean. Either because rhe parents can't afford it and live to their means, or because rhe parents just don't want to and tell them to work.

You're very naive and disconnected if you genuinely think most parents are paying. They aren't. Not by a country mile.

I just don’t know what to do - of course I want him to achieve in life, but I am so hurt and can’t trust him any more

He needs to get a job. Even if you eventually assist him in completing his degree, I don't think you should discuss that with him as a given.

He has messed up. He was either not suited to the course; not ready for university; lazy;' ill; deliberately misbehaving. A behaviourial psychologist friend of mine once sad that young people tend to go through a kind of second adolescence at around the age of 21. Cycles of 7 years, or something. But sometimes young people in their early twenties take some time to find their stride. It's actually a tough time - I know I took a few years to settle & work myself out.

Maybe get him away from intensive education for a while. He should get a job, and learn independence in that way.

You make a veiled criticism of his university: but that is totally unfair. They've obviously given him second and third chances.

Lazy, or self-sabotaging, or gormless students drive us (academics) crazy. Maybe those of us teaching should be tougher? One strike and you're out?

I can just imagine the outrage on MN if we did that.

Universities are not in the parenting business. We are part of the process of children growing into responsible adults, but we can't help or educate those who do not engage.

I hope you get to the bottom of what happened. That might help you to guide him towards sorting it out.

Good luck