DS major fail... wwyd? Totally pissed off

[Troublesometuesday]

In brief .....

DS was at RG London uni doing an engineering course.

In June, he told us he’d failed his degree. And whilst we we were shocked and disappointed, tried to figure out how best to support him.
Now, we finally know the truth of the situation, which is pretty shocking tbh...

-Failed a second year exam

• had four warnings about non-attendance at tutorials/practicals

-transferred onto ordinary degree at end of Yr2

We knew NONE of this!!!

Then, he failed two exams in final year and also failed his dissertation.

Now, whilst most of you will say, what an idiot.... my anger/fury/disappointment is not only directed at him, but also the fact that by treating students as adults, there is no way to intervene at all until it is too late.

To get a degree, DS has to go into 2nd year at another uni. So, never mind the fact that we have supported him fully for the past 3 years, he would get some funding for the coming year, but none at all for what would be the 5th year if a 3yr course....

Btw, at school he was a bright and able student who got 3 A’s - so, if ever there is a warning to other parents, this is it. They can lie, squander money, lie, don’t work, lie some more and fail then miserably.

I just don’t know what to do - of course I want him to achieve in life, but I am so hurt and can’t trust him any more.

I would be absolutely gutted to lose over £24,000 for no reason. I know it's not a lot of money to some people but it's a lot to me. I can see how that could make you feel the way you do OP.

But you need to separate the financial loss from the impact on your ds. I personally wouldn't be so upset for him failing his degree. Life teaches us lots of lessons and first hand experience is the best way to learn.

Let him lead the way now with what he wants to do with his life. Forgive him, chalk it up to experience and start talking about what he plans to do next. Don't give him any more money. Has he ever had any kind of a job at all? At this stage, he just needs to get out there and work, doing any kind of job. If he's living at home I would charge him rent.

Let him put it behind him and start building up some self esteem so that he doesn't feel like an incapable failure.

OP if you son worked while at uni did he do any placements relevant to his degree? Could he contact them and see if they have anything he could apply for? As a previous poster said if he can still access his universities career service they could be the best place for him to start. They would most likely have personality and occupational tests he could take (that can be hard to access and expensive if done privately) and have loads of resources that are perfect for his age group to explore all his options.

I don't know how much this applies to your son (and, tbh, he could just have been lazy or having too much fun or whatever) but if his failure is caused by depression or another MH problem that could be discussed and certified by a doctor then SFE will discount "used up" funding that was wasted through failure when he was ill. This is called "Compelling Personal Reasons". When/if he goes to apply for more funding, he has to include a cover letter with his application explaining what his CPRs are and including evidence to back this up (so, for example, depression would need proof from a HCP). SFE facilitates this so that people who are ill aren't penalised through their illness.
As I said, this might not apply to your son and, for now, it sounds like he needs to sort out his life in general anyway, rather than rushing back to a uni. I just wanted to mention that the system has means to support people who struggle through no real fault of their own. Only your son knows if this is worth pursuing-but it might be worth suggesting that he talks to his GP.

Massively agree with what @DaphneduM says. Really important re emotional support rather than financial.

Get him looking at apprenticeships instead. There are degree level ones, inc ones with f1 teams. Although he might not make it into to those after crashing out of uni

Personally I would encourage him to park any other degree/apprenticeships/education at least for a year . He just needs to get a job, earn some money , get himself back on an even keel . Dc got a fairly boring job which he unexpectedly found he was rather good at and it did his self esteem so much good to find his employers valued him and that he was good at something. He mixed with different people ( this in itself is a good thing) from assorted of backgrounds and realised that there is so much more to life than AAA and s university degree. Also the routine of getting up and going to work everyday was a good structure . He then moved onto other things but that year of re stabilising was invaluable I think.

I can understand your hurt and disappointment but your anger won’t help right now. It isn’t the university’s fault either; your son had many opportunities to tell you the truth but took the head-in-the-sand approach. My daughter was expected to do much better in her degree than she did; the job offer at a stellar company was withdrawn. She started temping, and getting herself back on track by further study. She worked bloody hard and I’m so proud of her - she is now in a fairly senior position in the organisation she works for, is well-paid and thoroughly enjoys her work. In time you may see this as a blip in your son’s career path, albeit a major one.

@Peaseblossom22

yes, totally.

Makes me glad that my DD is about to start University and will leave with no debt.

Fees and living costs are paid by government.

Nursing course- so eligible for a bursary, not a loan.

Nursing students are given £6578 a year, non repayable.

She’s in a very lucky position however DS2 has just finished his nursing degree and £6578 wouldn’t have covered his rent, bills, food, insurance, phone, travel to and from placement that has to be paid upfront then claimed back at a later date. (some of which were 49 miles away). You need to add on essentials she will need for the course too.

DS2’s bursary didn’t cover his rent,we had to help him out and he worked his arse off in a pub. It’s been a tight three years I can tell you.

What does your DS want to do OP? What solutions has he come up with?

Because that's the bottom line.

There is no way on Gods earth I could fund my son the way you have. He can't expect you to wave a magic wand and spirit him on to another course to finish this Degree without getting some form of a part time job surely?

He needs to prove to you that you can trust him and he can commit to something.
If you continue to fund him like you have been that makes him continue to behave like a spoilt child. He's a grown man.

I would put a plan in action. Is there a way he can take a year to work/ volunteer/ do something worthwhile and show he's not irresponsible and then maybe together you can work out a way for him to complete his studies afterwards?

I would seriously worry that he kept this hidden. He needs to be completely honest with you and I would want the truth as to the reasons he failed - too much partying, depression, lack of interest in the course? What was it? If he couldn't commit to the course why was he on it in the first place? Did he just drift on to it because he had no other plans and everyone else was going to Uni?
Are you high achievers and he felt he had no option?

Some people just aren't cut out for Uni and it's not the answer to everything. Some of the most successful of my friends did not go to Uni but worked their way up.

Either way it's time he got off his arse and faced up to things and took responsibility.

TheFairyCaravan we have been saving, and DD already works- she teaches dance.

My DS is not in quite such a bad situation (see "DS has fucked up" thread) but he has really struggled with the last two years of his course, and could still fail at this stage, and he was also doing well at school (AAB at A level, As and A*s at GCSE). He hasn't been drinking too much, taking drugs or squandering money (he barely spends any money has he barely goes out!). His problem seems to have been purely that he reached the level at which the subject was very hard for him. he also finds it hard to tell us when things aren't going well, although we've never given him any reason to fear it.

If he fails the one module he still thinks he might fail, he intends to go back and do it again. I'll support him in that decision.

I don't know your DS, but I think it is at least possible that he's fallen victim to the same sort of situation - he's just reached the level where he can't easily cope with the work. You mention squandering money at the end of your post, but never specifically say that he has squandered money. Has he? Or do you just mean that you feel his funding and your contributions were wasted since he didn't pass his degree? Do you know anything about his lifestyle that suggests he wasn't working as hard as he could?

In your position I think I'd be prepared to support him in having one more try (if you can't afford to help financially, then at least emotionally and by letting him know you accept his decision). If he has to work part-time to help support himself, so be it. If he wants it badly enough, he'll be willing to do that. If not, I'd support him in deciding not to go back to uni as well. It's not for everyone.

If he does want to go back, the biggest piece of advice I'd give him is to ask for help as soon as he feels he can't cope. He should talk to his lecturers about whether he's on course at any particular time, and to his tutor if it seems he's not keeping on top of the work in general. Someone may be able to suggest better study techniques, or some kind of counselling if it's a mental health issue. He could also bounce ideas around with coursemates instead of trying to go it alone all the time. These are all things my DS finds hard - yours may be different, but I hope at least some of my ideas are some help to you and him.

I very much agree with DaphneduM, who has put it much better than I could.

I get why you are upset and annoyed, but mental health issues amongst uni students are a real problem, and it could well be that your DS's actions stem from being overwhelmed, frightened by the fact that things were going tits up and hoping that he could eventually turn it around without the need to involve you because he couldn't handle your disappointment too. That could be how he saw it.

In the end he couldn't turn it around and was forced to tell you about it at the last minute. He won't be feeling great right now and very likely is in a bad place mentally. He probably feels a failure, vulnerable and scared, even though he may try to mask some of that.

Uni life and academia can take a big mental toll on young people. My DD1 ended up on antidepressants to cope. She did generally enjoy uni, and did get her degree, but I can't say that it was all plain sailing and there weren't times of struggle. There were. She had a year abroad (Paris for her) working in French schools, from which she ended up being signed of and prescribed Valium (by a local doctor). It wasn't easy.

Be there for him and offer reassurance and comfort. Let him know that you will give him the time and support to re-evaluate and come up with a different plan, such as a job, apprenticeship etc.

The support doesn't have to be financial, but surely he does need to know you still love him and will be there for him.

I'm afraid op I wouldn't be paying or supporting him to go back into uni straight away. I'd have him take a year out and work. Then decide.

This isn't just he failed, he wasn't even going to lectures and tutorials. Four warnings is serious and significant non attendance.

I'd be wanting to see him get a work ethic and grow up first.

OP - I agree with many others here. It must be a huge shock for you - your son has brought this upon himself and upon you. He didn't have the moral backbone to tell you and it just got worse and worse - he put his head in the sand and now is facing the consequences. He managed to take all the downgrade options the university had to offer and still didn't know how to turn it around and really work to save himself. It is now up to him to make choices about getting work or apprenticeships - but he needs to take responsibility and finance himself.

You cant just be expected to dig into your pockets to finance him for another course. Firstly, he has shown you that is likely to be a very bad investment - why throw good money after bad. And secondly, he wont have learnt anything that will make him into a mature adult who takes responsibility for his actions.

I am deeply sorry for you. I think its rather harsh to say its your fault - he just took the cowards way out and it then became harder and harder for him to come clean. But he has also lied and deceived you and he needs to take full responsibility for the money you've thrown down the drain. I know if I were in your shoes I would find it incredibly hard to understand and forgive him, and not feel really angry. But lets hope he can learn from this. He can still make something of his life - but just not at university. He's had his fun - now he needs to start working.

Summersup - you don't understand how it works. Most students take out the tuition loan, and the maintenance loan, and parents end up topping up - often paying the accommodation. The average accommodation costs in university are £5,244 p.a. which accounts for 95% of the maintenance grant. So many parents like the OP, who fully intend to get all the loans available will still be supplementing the costs.
I am very worried about it - my DC will need to get jobs during term time, and I will need to dip into my pockets pretty deep. I will have to be making real cut backs (and maybe getting a lodger) to help finance the accommodation costs.

I'm sorry that some of the posts are so unsupportive. It is an MN "thing" that when your child reaches the magical age of 18 they immediately become responsible and think like an adult.

I hope you both manage to find a way through this

Sorry OP, he has messed up here, not the university. They give you ample opportunity to improve your grades but it's a two way street. He is an adult, and he needs to make his own mistakes and deal with the consequences.

Maybe he felt like he couldn't tell you the truth because he was worried you were being disappointed? Maybe higher education just isn't his thing?

Bouledeneige I don't know how old your dcs are but mine both got part time jobs as soon as they could and saved loads before they even went to university. That helped massively. I don't think they could have managed without it.

DS started washing up in kitchens when he was 14. That's about the only regular job he could find at that age. Of course it's minimum wage and zero hours contract but it's a start.

Everyone .... I’ve been ovewhelmed by the support and POVs in response to this thread - thank you so much for taking the time to help an old gal out! It’s great to have a sounding board from others with less personal involvement.
I know we’ll get through it somehow, and hopefully, all will work out for the best eventually.
I guess, as much as anything, I wanted to highlight to other parents how the straightforward degree plans can spiral out of control.
I know I will be more involved with my DD’s future plans to study medicine. Can’t wait ....

I understand your upset OP, if you had known the 2nd year stuff you would have been in a better position to support your ds as you would have know there is a problem that actually needs support.

If a business is sponsoring a student through their degree how much are they told about the students attendance and grades by the university? Or does the student themselves have to give the company evidence in order for the funding to continue?

I’ve just RTFT, waiting to see something from the OP about what her son said about lying/not telling. You say you are frustrated with the uni for not telling you - but what was his excuse? Have you called him to account for that?

FWIW I did very well at a private school, but found the freedom of residential uni a bit too free, and my first year results showed it. I told my parents, got a bollocking, shaped up, did extra subjects and summer school and finished my double degree on time with first class honours. I later did a Masters at my own expense whilst working.

I hated every second of the bollocking from my parents and vividly remember crying in my room. That summer was awful. I also remember that the motivation to prove my parents wrong came out of that, and fuelled me for the rest of my degree. In hindsight (as my parents continued funding me) it taught me to be an adult and was probably just what my parents intended.

Lonicera it's true some people take a long time to grow up emotionally and we all know 45 year olds who behave like teenagers. However, there is a magical "thing" that happens at 18, it is called the law. In all areas of life if you break the law you will now be treated as a legal adult. Therefore it is definitely a goal of mine that our kids understand what that means and there are certain behaviours and mistakes that they will have to take full responsibility for and neither I or anyone else will be able to lessen the consequences. Growing up takes time but shielding people from the ramifications of taking full responsibility for themselves as legal adults is, I personally believe, unwise. For example I am teaching my teens what they need to do to build a good credit score and which mistakes will screw that up.

Northstar - I have actually seen very little of him all summer. Apart from the post-result face-to-face talk where it was more shock and sympathy at the time, he has been working as a residential camp leader hundreds of miles from home.
But the gist of his explanation is things started to slip and he felt he couldn’t tell me, things got worse, snowballed and he stuck his head in the sand. Not his words.
Anyway, he’s back this week and there will be the serious chat of ‘how did it get to be so bad?’
Up to now, I have been on the ‘let’s get another course sorted out’ side of resolving it. But over the past week, I’ve really stepped back from that, and hence, my post to see what others would do.

He lied and lied. Or 'lied by omission' by not telling you all the major incidents, listed in your op.

This is down to him. Not universities treating them as adults, ie not telling you.
He chose not to tell you.

The question to him is what are you planning to do?