DS major fail... wwyd? Totally pissed off

[Troublesometuesday]

In brief .....

DS was at RG London uni doing an engineering course.

In June, he told us he’d failed his degree. And whilst we we were shocked and disappointed, tried to figure out how best to support him.
Now, we finally know the truth of the situation, which is pretty shocking tbh...

-Failed a second year exam

• had four warnings about non-attendance at tutorials/practicals

-transferred onto ordinary degree at end of Yr2

We knew NONE of this!!!

Then, he failed two exams in final year and also failed his dissertation.

Now, whilst most of you will say, what an idiot.... my anger/fury/disappointment is not only directed at him, but also the fact that by treating students as adults, there is no way to intervene at all until it is too late.

To get a degree, DS has to go into 2nd year at another uni. So, never mind the fact that we have supported him fully for the past 3 years, he would get some funding for the coming year, but none at all for what would be the 5th year if a 3yr course....

Btw, at school he was a bright and able student who got 3 A’s - so, if ever there is a warning to other parents, this is it. They can lie, squander money, lie, don’t work, lie some more and fail then miserably.

I just don’t know what to do - of course I want him to achieve in life, but I am so hurt and can’t trust him any more.

Ha ha!! Not any more! Tuition fee loans cover the tuition fees. There are then tiny living costs loans that dont even cover the cost of the cheapest halls in most unis, let alone bills, food, books, clothes etc. Parents are expected to make up the shortfall. Given that OP said he was in London, that can easily amount to 8k a year.

I currently have two dcs at university and don't pay for either of them. They both have jobs. I pay for their travel when they come home to visit and once a term I give them £100 each to stock up on basics. If they need specialist equipment it's a birthday or Christmas present. Other than that, they support themselves and are happy doing it.

It's not true that parents are expected to make up the shortfall. Plenty of parents simply can't. But I agree that many do chose to.

Incidentally, one of the reasons I chose not to fund them was I thought that if they are going to waste money, they are more likely to waste mine than theirs so I'd prefer them to work and learn the value of it.

DS is still only 19 but everytime he's looking a buying something he works out how many hours work it will cost him. It does make him budget better.

One method is to expect certain academic results before you fund the next year, your work must be at 2.1 level or whatever you are comfortable with.

Makes me glad that my DD is about to start University and will leave with no debt.

Fees and living costs are paid by government.

Nursing course- so eligible for a bursary, not a loan.

I feel for you OP, but for your son too, he must be in a right mess wondering what's going to happen next. Try not to dwell on what has happened and why he didn't come to you earlier, and focus on what happens next. Does he want to continue with study? If so has he thought about study through OU? He can transfer across his Yr 1 credits to them. But make sure he knows it's definitely not an easy option and he'd need to work at the same time.

I wouldn't be assuming drug dependency was an issue, but I would think about his mental health. It's still so difficult for men to talk about these things, perhaps suggesting he visits the GP (on his own) to talk about what has happened and see if anything transpires from that.

I won't be able to afford £8k a year to support my children, so they won't be getting that, will have to do different courses in a different place, will have to work or live at home or whatever.

The issue here isn't the money, or the uni. The OP's son has told a pack of lies basically, about his future, and omitted the very important information that he would only have had an ordinary degree (rare these days) from the second year onwards. I understand why he didn't tell the truth, but he didn't. I feel sorry for him, and sorry for his mum. This may be the making of him though as he will now have to really reassess what he wants to do and wants to achieve. I hope so.

I have been where you are Although my dc left before we reached that stage , and whatever you do do not walk away , he needs you now more than ever now . He needs to know that you love him unconditionally however frustrating his behaviour. He has to deal with this himself but he needs you to be there reassuring and being a sounding board and letting him know that he does still have a future, because he probably doubts that at the moment.

In our case there were mental health issues as well as what a pp described as anxiety, procrastination and fear of failure.London universities in my experience can be very impersonal and it’s very easy to slip
Under the wire. It took a long time to persuade Dc to get advice from student support etc ( although they were great when he did , basically they try to ignore the problem and hope it will go away and things spiral out of control. It was a dark time but hopefully dc learned from it and so did we .

Another problem is that University is held up to 6th formers as the promised land of milk and honey and quite frankly it’s not. In many universities you are number , there is very little personal contact in first year , lectures are huge , dc smallest seminar had 20 something people in it . Many classes are taught by PhD students barely older than the student and often not especially interested. Personal tutors are overworked and not trained to deal with the myriad of problems presented to them . Crucially the student has to ask for help and for many that’s difficult . Dc simply felt to ashamed that he had messed up .

Five years on dc has a better job than some of his graduate friends , he is happy and living in the city with a friend . He has also started thinking about HE again . But this time with his rose tinted spectacles off and with a harder eye . It scares me as he was so miserable the first time but we will be there not to solve his problems but to to support him all the way.

I'm sorry that this has come as such a shock to you - your ds sounds very immature and has been lying to your face for several years now. I think that you must stifle and "rescuer" feelings that you have to swoop in a help him "fix" this issue and leave it to him. Your son has kept up a charade for several years and has even future bluffed you - all while getting you to fund it. This is shocking behaviour!

He is 21 with a failed degree - you need to force him to take responsibility for himself. What does he plan to do? I would tell him that there is no more University funding at the moment. Do not allow him just to glide on to another University as the problems that have caused this failure will just move with him. Set conditions whereby he needs to work and support himself for a year or two before you will even consider funding a new course. Or perhaps he should take loans himself?

I know how this feels (although not to the same extent as no lying). DD got into a very prestigious Uni course and had slaved to get the required entrance grades. But the reality was that she hated the course and the 6 day a week workload made her miserable and depressed. But she was able to talk to us about it and took the decision to drop out in February of her first year. She came home and has been cleaning part time and researched courses that suit her better.

How did you find out about the fail? Whilst you are understandably angry and shocked what is his response?
I would be concerned about his risk if suicide if he can't articulate his emotions and his future plan.
Reassure him that there is always a plan B.

"I have to admit I was living alone at 16 and put myself through university so I find it hard to fathom parents who are treating people in their 20s as needing to be constantly "managed". "

But he isn't you is he

Minimum maintenance loan is about £4,000 no matter what parental income is.

Makes me glad that my DD is about to start University and will leave with no debt.

Fees and living costs are paid by government.

Nursing course- so eligible for a bursary, not a loan.

Presumably you're not in England? Bursaries were scrapped last year.

Fretfulparent - only found out two days before the graduation I was expecting to attend! Had been ignoring my calls for a few days, then finally told me he had ‘ failed a module’... one day I may find the humour in it, but I can’t right now

I left home at 16, sofa surfed through my A levels and self funded my way through a science degree with over 30 hours a week contact time. It was without a doubt the hardest and most miserable time of my life. I was very close to failing a few time and ended up scraping a 2:2 and graduating a year later than I should have. This was back in the days of grants but my grant did not cover rent, let alone food, bills, transport etc. I wish I'd had a bit of 'managing'.

Lonicera I never suggested he was me or like me, I only mentioned that as background for why I tend to think people in their 20s are adults.

The OP is here for a discussion and my POV is one among many. I would give my kids plenty of emotional support but I think DH and I would say "What are you going to do?" And let them figure that out for themselves. This could be the making of him.

Bombardier25966

I am in the UK, but not in England

Nursing students are given £6578 a year, non repayable.

No fees either.

So she will finish her degree without a penny of debt.

Uni courses are now funded either by parents or employers.

No they aren't. They are mostly funded by the government through the Student Loans Company, with the student paying back some or all of this from future earnings. In the case of science subjects there will also be some direct funding from the Office for Students. For health professions courses (nursing, medicine, etc.) a large proportion is paid for by the NHS. Parents may well be funding living expenses, but this is an arrangement between the parent(s) and the son/daughter.

The only individual the university has a contract with is the student. It is illegal for the university to disclose any details of the student's performance, attendance, etc. to parents without the student's explicit consent. If I were to tell a student's parent that he wasn't attending classes I would be sacked. University students are adults and are treated by universities as such. If a student chooses not to communicate with her/his parent(s), that is not the university's responsibility.

I'm guessing you're wondering where you went wrong? I understand it's frustrating but I think he needs to figure out a solution himself, otherwise, he could do something similar later on in life.
My DSS dropped out just before his final exams but DH pointed out 'it's his life, he has to be allowed to make his own mistakes and earn his successes'. Thankfully, after working at a call centre for a year or so, he sorted himself out and transferred jobs within the same company. Now many years later, he has his own business, a six figure salary and a fabulous wife who's a GP. We really couldn't have predicted this happy outcome at the time but he just needed support to be able to live his life on his own terms. He still doesn't have a degree.

Wow these posts are really harsh.

I’ve been that student (apart from the lying)

He was maybe just enjoying himself too much, or found it hard to adapt from the spoon feeding of school to the free reign of uni or had emotional issues (girlfriend?)

You need to be understanding and not throw the baby out with the dishwater just because you’re upset.

If he’s set on getting his degree it’s best to support him to get there.

Who is to benefit by punishing him?

Once he’s in a dead end job he may never go back and the chance he has now will be lost.

No ones perfect. Everyone makes mistakes.

Learn and move forwards.

Rather than projecting your frustrations onto the university, maybe you need to look at yourself and your relationship with your son. You have raised a boy who was happy to take thousands of pounds of your money whilst lying to you. That is on you. I'm sorry if that is hard to hear, but maybe if you start there and get to the root of your relationship problems with your son, rather than simply blaming the university, you might be able to move forward positively.

OP, you must be feeling hurt beyond belief that your DS lied to you for so long - not just the odd fib, it sounds like over a year of putting up a front. Obviously, we don't know why he did this - he may not have wanted to admit failure, I don't know if you have a tendency to talk about his course/graduation to your friends and family which would have made it harder for him to back out gracefully. Either way, it's done now.

It is down to him though, not the Uni. Despite the financial backing you provide you are not the customer of the Uni, entitled to regular updates.

I wouldn't encourage him back to a different Uni if he's not ready (and he really doesn't sound ready tbh). If he does, pick somewhere cheaper than London and I wouldn't fund him to the extent that you already have. The motivation has to come from him or it's simply not going to work.

I have to say Op, my dh was an irresponsible little shit at uni. He studied mechanical engineering at an American uni. He screwed around and failed several core classes in his junior (third) year. He made sure his grades were kept from his parents for as long as possible. I was going out with him at the time was appalled at his dishonesty. His parents wasted over $20 000 on that lost year. It was about stress or anything, he was just having too much fun.
He did grow up eventually and graduated late. It set him back initially as he was a bit older than other graduates. However he's in his mid 40s now and has a senior role in his company, earning six figures. He is ashamed of how he wasted his parents' money. He consequently is always checking on our dcs' grades as he doesn't trust them!

I do hope you realise what a crisis you have here and how important it is that you handle it in the correct way. Your son may well have lied to you, but you need to be honest with yourself and think about the reasons he has done this, rather than being able to open up to you when things first started to go so wrong for him. If he was my son I would want him to come home, have a period of reflection and family discussions about what he really wants to do. It certainly is not a good idea to have some kneejerk reaction and get him onto another Uni degree. He will know how disappointed you are, and must be feeling terrible. I would suggest that he will be very vulnerable over the next few months. You might want to consider whether he needs some professional help, counselling etc. At the very least you do need to make it clear that you do still believe in him, stress his good qualities, and work out a way forward. I implore you to take seriously all the excellent comments and suggestions you have had on this thread. Your thinking seems to be to be rather entrenched and inflexible. He is your child, he is hurting and needs support. Once the dust has settled, you need to have some very honest discussions with him, but you must change your support from financial to emotional. That is what he desperately needs at this moment in time. Maybe give him leeway at home and time to consider his future, without pressure at the moment.

Oh dear.

I can see how you'd be disappointed troublesometuesday but I can also see how easy it would be for your son to hide what was really going on. There is a lot of pressure on young people now to succeed, and there is a certain kind of person that thinks there is still a chance they can pull things back when things are going wrong. A little white lie that everything is 'fine' can easily snowball into another, until something happens that means that it can't be hidden any longer- the graduation.

You can't change what's happened. Your son will probably be learning lots of lessons from what's happened though, and although he's failed his degree it might to help him develop as an adult. Particularly if he can pick himself up and do something about this situation, or something career wise.

My ex didn't manage to complete his degree, despite being intelligent, but is very successful and earns more than I could possibly ever earn (I have a 1st and a postgrad). He felt he had to prove himself in other ways, and always felt really bad for disappointing his parents. This was before the humungous fees/living costs.

Your son needs to work out what he will do next. It sounds like he has a work ethic (working throughout uni) so maybe he'd actually do better in the workplace than at university. You've done what you could to support him at university financially, please don't take his failure as not appreciating tha, unless his attitude says otherwise. You don't know the reasons behind his failure, and he might not feel able to tell you. If he chooses to go to uni again in the future he could support himself to do so. The period that he went to uni might not have been the right time for him, at this point in your life, but it's hard when you or other people are making a huge financially commitment to admit that you've made a mistake.

I can see how easily this could happen. I didn’t pass part of my undergrad degree. I had to change courses and only just finished. In my case, it was difficulties due to no diagnosis of dyslexia and ASD until late on, consequently I struggled with time management and motivation.

It can happen so easily though. At A-level, most students still have parental support and encouragement. At uni, some students simply CBA to get out of bed, especially if they’re hungover. You miss a few lectures, you get a bit behind. Within a couple of weeks you’re so behind you don’t really understand the content any more and struggle to pass the module. I imagine your DS was embarrassed to start with. Who wants to tell their parents they’ve failed modules simply because they haven’t turned up? I bet he hoped he could turn it around, by the time he realised he couldn’t, it was this massive thing to tell you.

I would encourage him to have a year out, get a job. He can look into resitting his second year starting next year (and earn some money to support himself) but encourage him to question whether uni is really for him. Some people just aren’t cut out for uni, even if they have achieved academically in the past. Or could he study and live at home? The other thing to look at is apprenticeships like a PP suggested. He might be better with on the job training.