A Level Choices for degrees - any advice welcome

[Littleham]

My year 11 dd is choosing her A Levels. Her favourite subjects are Maths, Music, German and Chemistry. She doesn't know what she wants to take at degree level or where she wants to go (she did ask about combining Maths and Music). At the moment she might not be able to take Further Maths (her Maths teacher says she has the ability) due to a timetable clash & if she did she would have to drop one of the other favourite subjects.

Have had a quick look at the joint honours courses for the subjects she may end up doing & it looks possible (eg Edinburgh AAA, no need for FM)-
possible combinations of Maths / Music
or Music / German
or Maths
or anything else that enters her head!

Had a chat with dd & we went through the very useful booklet with the jazzy yellow highlights. She likes Maths enough for A Level, but I think she will do something different at university. She is the most determined person I have ever met in my entire life (in a good way) so I'm quite sure it will work out well. Think she will stick with the A Levels in my OP as she says she cannot bear to drop them.

It will be very interesting to see which way she jumps - science, music or languages (or a combination).

Cauchy re the rote learning = good A levels but may struggle at uni. I encounter this frequently at work.
Have you any links or evidence ... its such a tough conversation to have (essentially, your child might get an A but they will struggle, because of the rote learning/tutoring) and I am always trying to find impartial evidence so it doesn't just sound like I'm a killjoy!

Also with school maths, students who like the safety of right/wrong are often attracted to it (as opposed to humanities or even sciences with more interpretation. .. Some students find this scary) and as already said, some way of warning them that the "you won't just get it and mechanically work it out at uni" wpuld help.

Our head of maths retired recently. She used to be excellent explaining this - I understand it but find it tricky to explain/give examples.

Interesting continuation of thread.
My impression of some of the really good mathematicians is that they are so used to finding maths at school relatively easy that they do become mentally quite lazy. They are attracted to maths because it is less work for them but have often not yet experienced that hurdle in understanding that takes a bit more perseverance. This means that some may not be used to or inclined to put in the effort required at these points.
They also can find computer programming modules harder because they actually have to learn rather than understand something.

It would seem that some students from overseas may be more advanced in maths and therefore 'better' because of the extra harder work they have already covered.

There is a difference between finding it easy and loving Maths though. It is hard to know who is suited to carrying it on to degree level.

I also find that maths is sold/experienced at school as binary right/wrong - almost very complex puzzles: you get 100% on the questions and "win".
Whereas no one goes into GCSE or A level science, humanities or arts with that expectation: whether they think it makes it "easier" (as some parents I work with think) or not, the students know that things like initiative and creativity mean they might include all the rote/technical elements in their answer and still get a "but have you thought of..?" or another angle.

Unfortunately as I understand it, this only comes with the top end of FM or at uni with many maths students. A whole new "world" ... and many selected maths to avoid the shades of grey in other subjects.
I recall a very talented mathematician blowing a 6th former ' mind by introducing ideas like ethics (finance) and paradox/experimental maths.

I'm thinking of what Simon Rattle said recently about the lack of decent concert halls in London.

Is your DD at all interested in acoustics OP?

The uni I went to offered Physics and Music as a degree, and the people that did that came out into good jobs - one I know still runs her own 'science as performance art' business (very successfully), and another works as a sound engineer for the BBC.

The syllabus had a lot of studio stuff and acoustics etc so was really good for people with talent in both areas.

I know someone who did physics and french as a degree (it was dual honours, so not physics in french ) and she did her postgrad overseas

A postgraduate year based in Berlin and touring / investigating other European concert halls might be rather lovely.

It sounds lovely, but I showed her all the information and she much prefers chemistry. A shame, because she got an A* in her Physics mock, but she isn't that keen on Physics.

I appreciate her choice gives an unusual combination of A Levels, but she is very determined (and this is a major understatement ). If anyone can find a career that combines Music, Chemistry, Maths and German, I would be so happy.

I know a few sound engineer types ... fascinating stuff! Does showbiz await..?

Goodness knows what awaits! I have a whole new respect for sixth form advisers.

Littleham There is a difference between finding it easy and loving Maths though. Absolutely. Can be the same for other subjects, being good at something does n't make it something you want to spend most of your time doing as your DD is illustrating. The difficulty with some subjects at GCSE level (such as physics ) is that GCSE does n't always give an indicator.

GCSE doesn't always give an indicator

This is so true. My older dd's both got one A Level choice wrong - an A* at GCSE and then got that 'oh dear' feeling at A Level. One stuck it out, but then we wised up and the other one did an early switch (best thing she ever did).

Maybe it will be third time lucky.....or fourth time lucky. Got to get it right at some point. A crystal ball would be handy.

I did joint honours in maths and French at uni, which ran along side a degree in maths and German. Found myself to be very marketable afterwards as I had the appeal of very solid numerical skills, a foreign language at a high level, the ability to write coherently which comes from a language degree and the proven independence of working and living abroad for a year. People from my course went on to be actuaries, accountants, teachers, financial journalists, placements on graduate management schemes, work in the foreign office.

I agree that it would be best to do further maths if she is considering it at uni. But to study any of her other subject it would not be necessary. I would be tempted to drop the German as then her other subjects go very well together. But if she might want to do business or economics or human sciences at uni then German would be just as useful...I think the key thing is whether or not maths is her favourite.

A student I know has found the step up to University maths far more difficult than expected. He was a star performer at school, Kangaroo entrant, prizes, and did Cambridge Pre U and STEP (required) and is at a top class university for maths. However, university is different to school and first year was a struggle. For someone used to sailing through everything it comes as a bit of a surprise that there are lots of other bright mathematicians from all over the globe out there and even with the best preparation, it can be daunting.

I actually think a MFL at A level is always worth doing. As has been said, adding in a MFL to a degree tends to lower offers and gives you a great year abroad!

Ongoing saga of A Level choices...... She has just announced a change of mind (due to a new timetable clash). And the timetable may still change right up until September.

Her current four are now Maths, German, Music and Physics.

That's much more flexible and useful as a combination.

Although I say that as the mother of a boy who has just started a mech eng degree. He did German at higher along with his maths and science stuff and is contemplating Germany for his year abroad which is part of his MEng..

Sounds perfect - BMus sound recording with a year abroad!

That would be a good fit wouldn't it? Thanks again for your help. Lets hope the timetable doesn't change again!

Timetable seems to have resolved what many of us suggested as giving more music-related or other options- physics instead of chemistry. It will be interesting to see what she thinks of A level physics and whether she finds it more interesting than the GCSE.

I'm glad the mums on here are happy.

So long as OP's DD is as happy with Physics as she was with Chemistry it sounds like a good result. As I might have said upthread, it's the subjects you drop that cause the heartache.

Thanks Cleebourg. She is happy at the moment! The main 'problem' is that she enjoys most subjects, doesn't have a clue what she wants to do in the future and has a mercurial nature.

I've lain all the advice out in a factual way and told her to follow her instinct. It has been a very helpful process as it has proved that certain subjects are non negotiable (music) and others might change.