Guest post: "Muslim women are diverse, funny and opinionated – not #TraditionallySubmissive"

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

As a mother of two girls, I'm constantly anxious that they don't suffer from the gender penalty as they grow up. This is the penalty that props up the glass ceiling, that restricts their access to the corridors of power, that makes their pay packet lighter, or that reduces them to their body and looks, and continues to disproportionately burden them with childcare and household chores.

But as a Muslim mother I also worry that my daughters live in a society that does not see them for the people they are or give them the space to flourish as individuals. Instead, they are on a perilous slope towards being seen as part of a homogenous group of oppressed, dehumanised creatures. Front page headlines today proclaimed that "Muslims are not like us". It's yet another example of the constant hostility faced by Muslims – especially Muslim women – in the UK.

My heart sank last week when I woke up to the news that the Prime Minister had said Muslim women must do more to integrate. I mean, I love queueing, I can talk at length about traffic and weather, and I'm on Mumsnet. What more does he want?

His aim is to get more Muslim women to speak English and he announced a £20 million fund for English lessons. I've always been an advocate of how important it is to speak the main language of social engagement, and I've been involved in running workshops encouraging women to better express their voices and opinions. So I'm all for English lessons for those struggling with the language. But this was the same Prime Minister who cut £45 million funding for English lessons this summer.

His clumsy and lazy characterisation of the 'Muslim women problem' stitched together ideas of Muslim women as segregated from society and responsible for extremism, and led to the all-too-familiar headlines casting Muslim women as isolated, illiterate and oppressed. However, he admitted that there was no causal connection between not speaking English and extremism. But the damage is done. The misleading portrayal of Muslim women undoubtedly exacerbates an increasingly hostile environment; attacks against Muslims are up 275% since the Paris attacks and Muslim women make up 60% of the victims.

If I wasn't already angered enough at this, I nearly spat out my morning coffee when I read reports that the Prime Minister had privately suggested that a major reason young men are vulnerable to radicalisation is the "traditional submissiveness" of Muslim women.

I responded in the most British way possible – with sarcasm. After all, we are always being told to adopt British values.

"Actually, my husband runs my Twitter feed because I can't speak English #TraditionallySubmissive" I mocked on Twitter, adding "I bought a sports car and published a book (in English and eight other languages). I must be doing this wrong."

I wasn't the only one to feel incensed. Other Muslim women took up the hashtag. Dr Sukaina Hirji, a GP based in London, posted on her Facebook page "I and many others have been extremely hurt by David Cameron's article in The Times earlier this week, specifically (and incorrectly) targeting Muslim women's apparent inability to speak the English language and loosely linking this to radicalisation (multifactorial causes) and Female Genital Mutilation (cultural practice)."

She made a public call to Muslim women to "show solidarity and speak out against this discrimination" by tweeting and posting selfies during a coordinated period to create a Twitter storm with the hashtag #TraditionallySubmissive.

On Sunday evening, the hashtag was quickly trending in the UK and continued to trend until Monday morning, with over thirty thousand tweets sent so far. These ranged from pictures of Muslim women graduating, hiking, fundraising, skiing and boxing, to others holding placards listing their achievements - including speaking multiple languages.

Coverage of the Twitter storm has been global – and this is important, because women's voices must be taken seriously, and Muslim women are part of the 50% of our population that is consistently under-represented and under-served. Muslim women are vibrant, diverse, funny and yes, opinionated. And that's a good thing. We want to make things better for ourselves and for those around us. And we hope you will support us in challenging the idea that we are submissive, pathetic little flowers.

Are you talking about the UK?

If it happens it should not.

Ok just read where are you talking about?

I can't speak for countries. And neither am I accountable for what dictators do in the name of religion.

The thing I find most uncomfortable about the people defending the reasons why they wear the veil, is what it says about women who choose not to. If you think that the veil is about your piety, modesty and submission to God, do you feel women who don't wear the veil are not pious enough, or not modest enough? If you think they are equally pious and modest, why do you have to veil up to be pious and modest, but not them?
If that is your view, is that the view of the men who assaulted the women inCologne, or the men who performed sex acts in swimming baths? That as these women were not veiled or covered, they were not modest? that they deserved to be assaulted as they were Godless and immodest because their hair and face was showing?

Im not defending the veil, I'm just sharing my own views on it.

My wearing of it was partly due to my personality more than anything (shy). I do believe it is beneficial, but Im not judging anyone else - why would I?

Its like there are loads of ways to do good - if you are a person who gives lots in charity should you look down on others that don't?

Hijab is only one aspect of our faith.

Yes of course I am taking about abroad (Iran). The Met don't usually bother about hair on display! But its one same religion - different execution of same ideas.

It is naive to suggest that there are no women here bullied into it. There are as many variations in interpritation as there are hairs on my head.

And yes, you do get women who get all sniffy about those who cover less/tarty western women. Oh boy, you do!

lol, I am not denying that it does not happen - it should not! But its not my fault :)

yes, at that point i was referring to the bullying side of it.

I knew a few girls who were forced to wear one - took it off in the bus on the way to school.

But those were the kind of parents who did not bring their children up to understand the faith, were totally absent in many other ways, taught nothing about the faith to their children - and bang, at school she has to wear hijab - meaningless and again, loses the point.

No its all your fault! Bad girl. Stop it now.

I couldn't cover my face though and definately not my eyes.

:)

LikeI really appreciate your considered and patient engagement on this thread

I think most people would agree that enforced covering absolutely does happen in certain other countries, as way to subjugate women and exert control. I think we would all also agree that it is wrong.

In the UK the pressure is more likely from family, and I think it is naïve to say that that sort of pressure can't also be significant to the extent that a girl is forced into complying with her family's wishes. There are numerous examples of this, from the small (I didn't own a skirt shorter than my knees until I went to university), mid (I took exam subjects that were more my parents' wishes than my own) to life changing (happily not my experience, but forced marriage, pressure to abort / given children up for adoption are examples of this). And I don't believe that five year olds are able to make the decision themselves, either: that is clearly a parental decision, even with an element of "wanting to be like mummy".

But - as I said before - even a decision made free from pressure has implications for wider society. I don't want either of my children living in a society where the commonly held view is that appropriate daily attire includes women covering their hair. I don't want my daughter to stand out because she doesn't, and be viewed as morally inferior. I don't want my son to think that way about women - including his family members.

And I'm truly saddened if your experience of men is that they are mostly sexist and predatory. Sure, there are plenty of them around, but a) they do represent the minority; b) they will still be sexist and predatory when surrounded by women who have covered their hair; and c) why the hell should not wearing a headscarf indicate to these men that a woman is "easy" or "up for it"?

Christine,

The world is not so small or separated anymore - the UK and other countries are getting more diverse, well, they have been diverse for some time.

People travel more, they have experiences of different cultures and there is increased inter- marrying.

The reason why I am saying this is I think people's world view needs to change - unless you are of the opinion that this is England and only white Christians are allowed (!) - you sort of need to appreciate that you will meet people who are different to you, people who hold different values to you, and you have to appreciate that although you may not agree with them you have to get along with them as a community. That is what modern society is about.

UK society is not so homogenous anymore, there will be people who don't drink, people who are more/less modest than others - and so forth.

If this is how you feel, do you feel the same towards a nuns habit? Or a priests collar? That they're coming across as morally superior? No of course not, you see their garb as a dedication to their faith.

I don't look down on women who don't cover their hair, and it doesn't justify men who behave wrongly towards such women thinking they're easy - such men will be sinful and accountable for their behaviour.

Muslim communities are diverse, although there are ghetto type communities, on the other hand there are many members who work alongside others in charity work, for helping women who are escaping domestic abuse, working with the homeless and so forth.

I don't think anyones negative view on hijab should be a reason to reject Muslims. Yes there are issues with the community, but change will come over time, on a grassroots level.

Likereally - do you mind me asking if you are muslim born or a convert? I'll admit my views have changed a bit over the past years on islam and i worry i'm being overly influenced by the media coverage or more media war on islam etc.

I don't feel sorry for british born women who veil and i'd be interested to sit and chat with them. I think the veil does give off a more hardline, fundamentslist vibe. I can't help thinking it might be a political "fuck you", easy to understand as i think muslims are under huge attack in the UK and i can't imagine what it must be like to be the enemy or bogeyman.

I think women who choose to veil in the UK have to realise that if they choose to adopt the clothing that repressive regimes have decided to inflict on their female population, and the isis brides seem to favour - then people are going to wonder if you support that line of thinking. I know all women who veil aren't isis wannabes but people will wonder.

Lots of great institutions change to reflect different attitudes in society. As Buddhism teaches 'nothing stays the same'. Life on Planet Earth evolves in order to survive. The appalling conditions of the poor in Victorian Britain, acceptance of slavery, the unfair treatment of women, have thankfully been rejected in most democratic societies. Religions too must adapt and change to reflect life in the 21st century. I can't remember the last time I saw a nun wearing a full black habit. These old fashioned habits have disappeared and nuns now wear practical modern clothing. Few of them cover their heads any more. True Islam embraces change. The Muslim Council of Great Britain supports organ donation and blood transfusions in spite of centuries old teachings that the body should remain intact after death and be buried within 24 hours.The Council accepts experimentation on animals as long as it is only for medical reasons and to benefit society. It strives to uphold the spirit of the law rather than blindly follow out of date traditions that have no benefit to ordinary people. It is a shame that many Muslims ignore the enlightened approach of scholarly bodies such as the MCof GB and instead support divisive practices that cause conflict. Islam is fundamentally a religion of peace and harmony. Sadly you will not get that impression from some Muslim posters.

Most British people don't want everyone to be identical. We are one of the most tolerant nations on the planet and our good manners and politeness are legendary the world over so I suspect muslim women who cover may not realise many of us think it is very sexist. I also think the same for the very very few nuns (they are dying out) who cover their hair and the ludicrous putting on of silly wigs which are as showy offy as an expensive hair do of very orthodox Jewish women is also ridiculous,. However I wouldn't ban it. I just want the right to say there is no God and even if there were she would think it appalling women were not proud of their bodies. We also want to continue to feel we can wear very little in the UK without others not quite stopping us but being uncomfortable about it to the extent we then cover up more. That is a difficult one.

Some local girls are happy when schools ban head covering as it gives them the excuse to get out of having to do it when parents insist on it. Other local schools do allow it and some girls feel pressured to cover by their peers. They are not simple issues.

i have to say, i think if Muhhamed was reincarnated today or had been born now in London instead of back hundreds of years ago - he would be wearing jeans and a fleece. I do find this decision to cling on to a way of dress from long ago, no matter what ( like the Amish) strange. It will get noticed when people ( mostly women) are choosing to reject modern practical clothing for clothing from a time long ago - that is quite a powerful statement, what statement that person is making - i'm not sure.

Someone mentioned nuns - i believe many nuns nowadays, have ditched their long habits and full hair coverings for more modern and practical cloting.

Bambambini,

I am Muslim born and have been veiling for the last ten years.

These days simply wearing a Hijab causes a whole host of presumptions to be thrown at you, let alone a face veil. But it's not uncommon in Muslim areas, and women of various ages wear it.

I dont wear all black, to avoid the 'traditional' veiled appearance, although it probably makes little difference nowadays.

ISIS are a whole different kettle of fish, they are universally rejected by 99% of the Muslim population and considered extreme even by those who were considered extreme Muslims before in this country.

Bambambibi,

Besides the veil, Muslim women are supposed to dress modestly - an example of their dress can be found: www.shukr.co.uk

We are supposed to blend into our communities, the wearing of all black and the old style is something people have adopted from Saudi Arabia. There are lots of new shops opening which reflect this.

And men do wear normal clothes. Often they will wear traditional clothes on eid days or other occasions.

Likereally

I have friends who wear hijab and salwar kemeez. I have no problems with the clothing as it is practical, comfortable and can look beautiful. I don't mind scarves though think it must be uncomfortable and a little restricting at times, I'm not comfortable that it is pushed as being necessary.

I know that women who wear black and veil don't necessarily support the likes of Isis, but to many folk - that choice of dress could be seen to be aligning with a more fundamental ideology and the groups that think that is how women should dress.

We also in the past year or so have a had a few girls starting reception in hijab. People are seeing this more and more, like women choosing a much more OTT Islamic style of dress.

This appeared on my FB page today, with the slogan - "Always hijab"

I think it is a very grave error to look at a Muslim and contemplate whether he/she is an ISIS supporter.

Unfortunately, although there are some who have gone to join them, most Muslims in this country are striving and struggling for the same thing as every other person - getting their kids educated, trying to save up to buy a house, trying to pay the bills..

But unfortunately, what has happened has as a result had a negative impact on the normal Muslim just in the same way 9/11 did.

Like - some of those clothes you linked are lovely. They are a bit restrictive though.

I don't look at someone dressed in black Niqab and think they are a supporter of Isis but they are choosing an extreme mode of dress that these more fundamentalist or extreme Islamic groups (Taliban with the burkha) favour. Do you really think it's strange that people might wonder if those that actually choose to dress like that (unlike many who don't have a choice) might lean more in that direction.

What do you think when you see a skinhead with dock martins and some dubious tatoos - what is your gut reaction?

Skin heads, tattoos and boots would not bother me (unless the persons facial features were contorted with hate as the EDL look like lol) it is a lot to do with body language (and whether you are alone late at night!)

I do not believe the media is responsible in the manner in which issues are presented/reported. A lot of issues are sensationalised, there is selective and biased reporting, anything that incites the sensitivities of the masses is thrown at the forefront.

Coupled with the divisiveness that the governments policies are creating, through fear and Polarising muslims into camps based on how observant they are of the faith (and linking it to extremism), i sincerely do fear at the direction this country is heading.