Guest post: "Muslim women are diverse, funny and opinionated – not #TraditionallySubmissive"

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

As a mother of two girls, I'm constantly anxious that they don't suffer from the gender penalty as they grow up. This is the penalty that props up the glass ceiling, that restricts their access to the corridors of power, that makes their pay packet lighter, or that reduces them to their body and looks, and continues to disproportionately burden them with childcare and household chores.

But as a Muslim mother I also worry that my daughters live in a society that does not see them for the people they are or give them the space to flourish as individuals. Instead, they are on a perilous slope towards being seen as part of a homogenous group of oppressed, dehumanised creatures. Front page headlines today proclaimed that "Muslims are not like us". It's yet another example of the constant hostility faced by Muslims – especially Muslim women – in the UK.

My heart sank last week when I woke up to the news that the Prime Minister had said Muslim women must do more to integrate. I mean, I love queueing, I can talk at length about traffic and weather, and I'm on Mumsnet. What more does he want?

His aim is to get more Muslim women to speak English and he announced a £20 million fund for English lessons. I've always been an advocate of how important it is to speak the main language of social engagement, and I've been involved in running workshops encouraging women to better express their voices and opinions. So I'm all for English lessons for those struggling with the language. But this was the same Prime Minister who cut £45 million funding for English lessons this summer.

His clumsy and lazy characterisation of the 'Muslim women problem' stitched together ideas of Muslim women as segregated from society and responsible for extremism, and led to the all-too-familiar headlines casting Muslim women as isolated, illiterate and oppressed. However, he admitted that there was no causal connection between not speaking English and extremism. But the damage is done. The misleading portrayal of Muslim women undoubtedly exacerbates an increasingly hostile environment; attacks against Muslims are up 275% since the Paris attacks and Muslim women make up 60% of the victims.

If I wasn't already angered enough at this, I nearly spat out my morning coffee when I read reports that the Prime Minister had privately suggested that a major reason young men are vulnerable to radicalisation is the "traditional submissiveness" of Muslim women.

I responded in the most British way possible – with sarcasm. After all, we are always being told to adopt British values.

"Actually, my husband runs my Twitter feed because I can't speak English #TraditionallySubmissive" I mocked on Twitter, adding "I bought a sports car and published a book (in English and eight other languages). I must be doing this wrong."

I wasn't the only one to feel incensed. Other Muslim women took up the hashtag. Dr Sukaina Hirji, a GP based in London, posted on her Facebook page "I and many others have been extremely hurt by David Cameron's article in The Times earlier this week, specifically (and incorrectly) targeting Muslim women's apparent inability to speak the English language and loosely linking this to radicalisation (multifactorial causes) and Female Genital Mutilation (cultural practice)."

She made a public call to Muslim women to "show solidarity and speak out against this discrimination" by tweeting and posting selfies during a coordinated period to create a Twitter storm with the hashtag #TraditionallySubmissive.

On Sunday evening, the hashtag was quickly trending in the UK and continued to trend until Monday morning, with over thirty thousand tweets sent so far. These ranged from pictures of Muslim women graduating, hiking, fundraising, skiing and boxing, to others holding placards listing their achievements - including speaking multiple languages.

Coverage of the Twitter storm has been global – and this is important, because women's voices must be taken seriously, and Muslim women are part of the 50% of our population that is consistently under-represented and under-served. Muslim women are vibrant, diverse, funny and yes, opinionated. And that's a good thing. We want to make things better for ourselves and for those around us. And we hope you will support us in challenging the idea that we are submissive, pathetic little flowers.

Everyone is entitled to their own view - but I think those who are refusing to accept that traditional submissiveness is trained into huge numbers of Muslim women should read this blog.
hifsahiblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/a-letter-to-david-cameron-from-a-not-so-traditionally-submissive-muslim-woman-who-happens-to-agree-with-most-of-what-you-have-said/

Many young women may have started veiling or covering simply because they are at that stage of their lives where they are looking for an identity

And in doing so you have helped to condemn yet more muslim women and girls the world over to a miserable existence. If you had any ounce of humanity and decency, you would refuse to veil in solidarity with those who have no choice and who have been killed or maimed for not doing so. Unforgivable and unbelievably selfish.

The cartoon posted above is pathetic. No one is concerned about freeing the morons who've used their own free will to embrace an ideology inimical to universal equality and human rights.

You think by voluntarily covering people have more respect for you ? Then you are seriously deluded. Apart from the knuckle dragging Islamic brothers, almost no one does. I'd go as far as saying, that a fair few probably think women who veil must be pretty dense. And let's face it they'd be right. What else would you think about someone who freely signs up to one of the most virulently anti-woman ideologies that has ever existed.

The West is right. There is objective correctness and that is that women and men are equal and head covering is sexist and backward. I am allowed to express that view in the UK thankfully although I would not be allowed to in some muslim countries - shame on them. As for Islam (and indeed fundamentalist Christianity - of which there sill remain a few pockets like The Brethren and in the US groups lik FLDS) we all know what is preached and in the bible and koran - women submit to men and obey them.

Agree with Mistress Mia. At best, when I see someone in a niqab (not v often as I live in an affluent area) I think they're unfriendly, at worst, aggressive/intimidating.

Would it kill you to make the concession to remove the niqab?

Silly OP. And silly muslim women pretending that they are individuals with their wee photos and made up statements.

You can't fool the posters here. They know that Muslims only come in two varieties: Victim and Perpetrator.

I worry about the implications of covering for my children.

For my son it is saying that he is so weak and sexually driven that females need to cover themselves to keep him from temptation. Pretty insulting stuff .

For my daughter it is saying that she is dressing immodestly and possibly even "asking for it". Which is also insulting.

Covering is never a personal decision, it has social implications. And I can't agree that the veil in particular can ever be acceptable in the UK

Dione

So everyone on this thread is bigoted?

Definitely not Alis.

I am on this thread.

Oh Dione you know that's not what I meant!

There have been some seriously duff responses but I think there have been good ones. I hope I've not come across like a twat, anyway.

My covering has everything to do with me submitting to God.

If you disagree that's fine, but you need to respect that people will be different to you, and have different motivations - not all of which sinister or backwards.

People's reactions to veils etc is nothing more than a reflection of the prejudices and presumptions you hold inside - as much as you veil it (ha!) it is very clear.

Once you recognise this and go out of your comfort zones in actually interacting with Muslim women on a personal level with an open mind and open heart, you will not see it, indeed, you may be surprised at what you find.

It is wrong to form judgements based on outer appearances and simultanouesly use your knowledge of contentious cultural issues in the Muslim world to interpret what you see. We are not living in the Muslim world.

Indeed, there are many aspects of British culture that is not universal to Brits but is clearly exhibited in the streets here or abroad by many - just as wrong as it would be to presume that all British people are alcoholics and behave like animals or all British men are pedophiles (based on the numerous men who have been involved) it is wrong for you too to generalise based on a few cultural issues.

Down and out.

Dailybaby,

Thanks for the link - all of it is true - I come from a culture where there are lots of that element of control prevalent, I've had to fight my own numerous battles at varying degrees of personal cost and sanity for many years now.

However, it is a problem that is found throughout communities in South Asia - it is not a religious problem.

It is not entirely a language problem either, and that is what is lacking in Cameron's approach to it, and the reason why any initiatives will not be fully effective.

Our religion refutes and does not accept any of this behaviour.

That is where the line should be drawn, if s Muslim behaved badly, or a Christian or a Jew, it's only an indication of human frailty - nothing more.

These kind of cultural crap will be challenged over time - it is already happening - it is happening all around the Muslim world - where people are using their faith to try to eraducate this behaviour.

Nothing more than human frailty?!!!!

Was Cologne nothing more than human frailty then, or Rotherham, or Rochdale? Or for that matter,auschwitz?

That really is the most outrageous thing I've ever read on here.

I agree with every single word of what mistress Mia said. Well done. The veil is a symbol of oppression of women. It has nothing to do with piety. I feel sad and angry that women feel they have to wear it. It has become more prevalent in the last 30 years. Your religion is becoming more and more illiberal and confining and to deny it is nonsense. No one here will be fooled by your false separation of 'culture' by which I imagine you mean 'custom' and religion. Doesn't matter. Wearing the veil is a symbol of oppression, and insulting to men.

I think if God were to have a good old look at people to see of they are good or not he'd be looking at their mind and heart, not at what they may or may not wear on their heads - if women.

If clothing was that crucial to attain the good graced of the almighty, you can bet your boots that the men would be first in the queue to veil up.

The veil is a red herring. It is a garb that was practical in a time and place where the climate was/is hot, dusty and uncomfortable. When there was wars and women taken by enemies along with anything of value. It made sense for someone to say 'hang on, best keep out of the way so that these barbarians (them not us of course) don't take you'.

If course this could be seen as protection of women, or protecting their property, depending on the cultures attitude to women. Either way - in times of war women will try to make themselves invisible or repellant to try to avoid rape. This happens now.

There are so many important parts of religion that aims to build a society that cares for the poor, protects the weak, etc.

Outward display - especially if it is something that is not culturally the norm - throws up a barrier immediately. It says 'back off - you are not one of us" and potentially, as you find in all religions "you are scum, going to hell and less than a human to me". It breaks the human connection. We are just human when it comes to it.

Yes, human frailty.

Is causes all of us to fail sometimes.

Thats why there are social laws, moral laws - to set things right. And prisons etc.

Mavis,

I have simply stuck to my explanation of hijab as submission to God as that what it is first and foremost. It is based on the premise that we believe in the Quran as Gods word and the Prophet Muhammad as His Last Messenger who explained the Message. Thus whatever we follow of that, we will be rewarded for it.

If you want to see it through the human angle, there are many ways of viewing it, however, it is not the beginning or end of how we are supposed to be as people - that's how it's currently being treated - and that is not right either.

Some women will regard it as a form of modestly. Women are guided to be modest in their behaviour in front of men, and in their appearance too - that's it.

Women are different from men, this is very clear, different bodies, different natures - many men are predatory, but again these are generalisations - you will always have exceptions - but moral guidelines in our faith encompass society as a whole.

Some women will follow it out of love for God. Others will wear it as they feel more comfortable dressing like that.

All of this can be meaningless if you are not Muslim, however, I have not experienced much hostility since veiling only interest - mumsnet is certainly not representative of the general population.

Covering the head is something Christians use to do - and later, in church. As society has become more secular yes, the norms have changed.

Human nature has not changed much though, and moral guidines exist for a reason.

I didn't really intend to have a religious discussion but even if you disagree with hijab/face veil, it's not meant to be a statement - and it is not supposed to be used like a thing to make people who don't cover feel bad or be used to assert superiority over anybody.

Many men are predatory. What an awful belief.

A tiny, tiny minority are, but a headscarf won't stop them.

Oh come on, it's reality!

Not in my world. I'm sorry for you if it is in yours.

Not in mind, of that of my family.

Now this is a genuine q- not being goady. If wearing a covering of some sorts is something that the almighty rewards a woman for, then is there degrees of reward? Scarf less than full veil, eyes and hands more so? What if a woman chooses rather than is made to? What if you live somewhere where you have no choice?

I'm interested because I know more women who live under the veil (in the ME) than those who choose to abroad. They see it as political rather than religious. A way to keep society, esp women in their place. It's funny how the clothing crackdowns happen when the economy is doing badly, or the politicians are feeling vulnerable.

Even granny, who was a highly educated and very religion woman, said that the covering was so that you didn't stand out, so wouldn't wear it in the uk. Granddad agreed.

Seriously, I'm using predatory in a broad way but surely you know what I mean?

Sexism at work, unwanted attention, sex- obsessed men, womanisers - the list is a long one.

Not in my family either! I'm talking generally.

Surely that should be addressed head on? We've seen predatory men in action and you just can't blame women for this, any more than you can blame the lamb being just too darn tasty for the dog to resist.

If you follow something as part of the faith, you are rewarded according to your intention/sincerity something from the heart - applies to all religious actions.

Veil is another issue, most women don't wear it, and there are differences in opinion whether you should or not (I wear it as I feel comfortable to do so, nothing more than that.) so no in this respect they will be on par - you have to remember there are other elements to covering, such as modesty in your behaviour and so forth - so it's not black and white.

No one should be forced to cover. It kind of loses the point (reward due to intention).

You can't really force anyone to do anything really in terms of religion - sincerely advise, but everyone is accountable for their own actions,

But they are forced. My aunt was threatened by some kid on a uniform with a gun for a lock of hair peeping out, and there are women in the country who are bullied into it. It happens.