Can I stop forever?

[grahamgreenefanatic]

I need to stop drinking forever. I've always drunk to get drunk since I was 18, I'm now 45. Is it better to say 'never again', or 'small achievable steps at a time' Is there anyone out there who can help or who feels they need it?

Well, I've not had a drink for 7 days. I was averaging a minium of 6 bottles of wine a week.
I've just been to an afternoon reception and drunk pineapple juice all afternoon, even though there was a free bar

OOh well done hybrid! Free bar...!!

Thank you teasle

6 bottles a week was a minimum, some weeks i've had 3 a night and then gone out on sat had a few pints and then come home and had 3 bottles.

I'm not drinking for a month and seeing how I feel after. There is alcohol in the house, but, I've not even been tempted to touch it.

Sorry you are feeling 'ick' ggf but well done on your continuing resolve!

Hi to Cymbidium and congrats on your 7 days

I hope everyone is having a relaxed saturday evening.I think I may need to join a online dvd club (we have no dvd rental shops here) as the tv is completely dire over the weekends .

I'm not really doing anything tonight, watching tele and maybe a film later.

To be honest, i can't remember the last time I had a sober saturday night where I can actually remember what I watched etc, or a saturday or sunday morning where I didn't wake with a hangover.

Hi Posh, how's it going?
Hybrid, this is my 8th day so we're neck and neck. Iknow what you mean about Sat nights. I'm hoping last Sat morning was the last morning I will ever wake with a hangover. What's triggered your resolve to give up? Anything specific or just 'What am I doing to myself and everyone around me I love'?
BTW Tesco DVD is quite good, it's really good to have something to look forward to that isn't crap TV.

Hello All

Am now on day 21 and I certainly think it gets easier. When I would have been tempted to have "just one glass" before I have now started saying to myself - "well you know it might end up being 2 or 3 glasses and then you'd feel really pissed off with yourself". Its much easier not to start.

Went to kids party this pm where grown ups were all hanging out with plastic cups of wine - only alternative was the juice the kids were drinking. Depsite my normal aversion to sweet drinks I downed a cup or two of it and felt unbelievably smug and healthy.

Am hunting around for tasty non alcoholic drinks - agree with the not sweet thing. Have bought some ginger beer which although sweet is a bit spicy too.

Well done GGF & Hybrid. Don't worry GGF about how you managed it - you have done and that's what matters. I personally have never found illness to be a barrier to drinking wine so I'm sure that you too had to rely on your resolve as well as feeling ill.

Alhtough I have cold I am feeling so much healthier and more relaxed.

As for DVDs - can I recommend serials - you can get whole TV series from Love Film which can give you something to look forward to every day in the hour of greatest temptation.

If you are finding certain nights difficult- ie a couple of you mentioned Saturdays..then it is a good idea to just keep busy, doing whatever you can, especially in the early days of sobriety. I'm pretty lucky now as I have a good network- I can ring people, or go out in the early evening to a friends house, etc...but it was hard at first to know what to do. Sometimes just having a bath, eating properly(i never ate properly when drinking) etc can help.

Hello all,
Thank you MissNash for your vote of confidence. Feeling much better today so my next challenge is now. Sunday lunch, pottering around the kitchen, sipping, sipping,gulping red wine. Still, it's bitter lemon but lots of nibbling!
I've discovered that ginger Ale, although I don't like it enormously, looks just like white wine in a glass, I just giggled at the thought of secreting a bottle of it to a party and furtively filling up your glass; then you could pretend to get drunk! Ah, what larks, eh,Pip?
How's it going Flowertop, Poshwellies, Hybrid?

Hi there

Was pointed over here by teasle and just wanted to say that I'm also in the process of stopping. I had 13 nights sober which is quite possibly the hardest thing I have ever done...and blew it last night with a houseful of guests.

but, rather than thinking fuck it, I can't do it and carry on drinking, I'm getting right back on that wagon tomorrow and hopefully looking at it as a blip.

In response to the OP; A quick scan of the thread shows you have got lots of fantastic advice and support here which I'll read in more depth in a minute as I know it will help me too, but in the meantime, I?'m trying to think of it as not drinking today rather than not drinking forever, as I just can't cope with the thought of never, no ever drinking again. I also think that that way it is easier on you wrt how you feel if you do give in to it occasionally as I did last night. if that makes sense.

Hi all

Welcome daisy-well done on your 13 days! It's still 13 days with a minor lapse-hate the word relapse so I don't use it to describe the odd blip.I found the first 2weeks fairly tough going but once you get out of that habit of looking for the bottle opener after a while it does get easier.

Not feeling 100% here,just feel completely washed out and knackered,almost like I'm anaemic,so I'm carting myself off to the gp in the morning,no doubt my gp will add in a bloods for liver function I've not had one of those for at least 2yrs....

Got the fire going and lazing on the sofa watching Larkrise here..bliss.

Welcome Daisy, You've done ever so well going 13 days, I'm only day 10 today. I agree with the 'won't ever drink again' I think. It's too daunting. On the other hand, I started this thread because deep down I knew that I couldn't drink functionally and safely and that it had got to the time when I had to say 'never again'. If I let myself feel I can drink again sometime, even only once, then I will, and I know I won't drink responsibly. Therefore it will only reinforce the knowledge that I can't drink ever again. It will also highlight my inadequacy about myself, i)letting myself drink, therefore failing in my resolve, and ii) drinking too much.
Having said that it is so hard to tell yourself you willnever have another drink
Good Luck, keep posting

Posh, sorry to hear you're feeling rubbish. It seems so unfair when you've cut out the culprit that normally accounts for this sort of feeling, and with such effort. I expect the GP will do some bloods for TATT (tired all the time) They always include LFTs. I hope they'll be fine. If it's any consolation, TATT is one of the commonest reasons for consulting GPs. And most people are fine (ie, no sinister causes to it) I think there is a natural ebb and flow to life where energy and inertia are inextricably intertwined. There isn't nec. a reason for the surges and the plunges but no harm in eliminating any simple causes and indeed the concomitant anxiety. Hope you can see GP and get bloods done in one go.

Well, got through Sunday lunch. We normally, all of us sit down on Sunday evening and watch something, currently it's 'Little House on the Prairie'. I usually sit there feeling rather sick from too much alcohol at lunchtime, so it was lovely to participate feeling entirely well
Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread, it really has helped me get through this first 10 days.
Oh, I've lost 2 pounds as well..
Will post later at 'vulnerable time' ie, between 5-6.30pm

"Having said that it is so hard to tell yourself you willnever have another drink" - so don't! Tell yourself that you won't drink today.

This is not the same as saying that you will be able to drink in the future. It is saying that you are not going to worry about the future till the future comes.

Alcohol is not illegal. There is nothing to stop me drinking tomorrow, let alone in ten years time. But I would be a mug, based on my own experience, to think that that drink will be any different to my last drink, ie shit. So I don't worry about that. I decide that, today, i will not drink. Tomorrow, I get to choose again - happy or shit?

I have been making this choice daily for some time now, exactly as I did when I was drinking - I never decided, right, I'm never going to stop drinking or even, right, I'm going to drink for 6 months/all through January. The only difference is that these days I make the choice that makes me happy.

Try it!

I've told myself many times 'I won't drink today,' and I haven't; maybe I didn't drink yesterday and won't tomorrow.. but have, say, the day after that and the day after that. And I've drunk too much, irresponsibly and disfunctionally.
There is a difference between saying 'I will not drink today' but knowing deep down that yesterday's drink wasn't your last one, and saying 'i will not drink today' and knowing deep down it is, in fact, forever, because 'I would be a mug, based on my own experience, to think that that drink will be any different to my last drink, ie shit.'
It may work for some people but for others, myself included, does it not seem a little disingenuous to pussyfoot around something so life-changing as giving up an addictive substance that has major implications to behaviour, physical health and the key to potential happiness?

No, because it is not pussy-footing.

What IS pussy-footing is what most drinkers do. "I feel dreadful. I am NEVER going to drink again."

What typically happens is one of the following scenarios.

a) You don't drink. You feel better. You've got more money, more energy, more friends. "Oh, look - my life is better. Perhaps I don't have a problem after all. I'll go for a drink - just the one, mind."

b) Within weeks, if not days, of making the pledge, your resolve starts to weaken, and the hangover that prompted it has worn off. Forever starts to seem a very long time indeed. "Did I say forever? I meant six months. Oh, hang on - it's Brian's birthday in April. all right - three months. But what about Valentine's Day? Perhaps I should just wait until after Brian's birthday and have done with it." You can almost hear the cork coming out of the bottle.

c) Everything goes well and then someone dies/leaves you/gets married/invites you to a party/shouts at you/steals your calculator in the office. "Hang on - when I said forever, I didn't foresee this happening. Perhaps this merits an exception. I'll just have the one."

My own personal view, therefore is that if, as you say, you are like me in that alcohol is "life changing" for you, you owe it to yourself to take it seriously and that means not making empty or improbable promises you have no way of being able to guarantee but, instead, manage today's behaviour today.

I would also add that - again, for me - this is something I need constant reminding of and support on and this is why I seek the help of others who know what it's like, in my case through AA.

No, because it is not pussy-footing.

What IS pussy-footing is what most drinkers do. "I feel dreadful. I am NEVER going to drink again."

What typically happens is one of the following scenarios.

a) You don't drink. You feel better. You've got more money, more energy, more friends. "Oh, look - my life is better. Perhaps I don't have a problem after all. I'll go for a drink - just the one, mind."

b) Within weeks, if not days, of making the pledge, your resolve starts to weaken, and the hangover that prompted it has worn off. Forever starts to seem a very long time indeed. "Did I say forever? I meant six months. Oh, hang on - it's Brian's birthday in April. all right - three months. But what about Valentine's Day? Perhaps I should just wait until after Brian's birthday and have done with it." You can almost hear the cork coming out of the bottle.

c) Everything goes well and then someone dies/leaves you/gets married/invites you to a party/shouts at you/steals your calculator in the office. "Hang on - when I said forever, I didn't foresee this happening. Perhaps this merits an exception. I'll just have the one."

My own personal view, therefore is that if, as you say, you are like me in that alcohol is "life changing" for you, you owe it to yourself to take it seriously and that means not making empty or improbable promises you have no way of being able to guarantee but, instead, manage today's behaviour today.

I would also add that - again, for me - this is something I need constant reminding of and support on and this is why I seek the help of others who know what it's like, in my case through AA.

So every day one makes the pledge 'not to drink today'. Is that not the same as saying 'I won't drink today or on any 'today' for the rest of my life'? At some point the decision to 'not drink today' becomes no 'todays, ever' because otherwise it will be precisely that- nothing today but maybe tomorrow because it's Brian's birthday. At what point does'Today' come to mean 'always' and not just 'today'? What I'm saying is there comes a time when the choice not to drink becomes life-changing and permanent, not just 'today'
I agree that for some people it may work and I would say that if they are seeking help for it, there is a greater resolve in there anyway whether you say 'not today' or 'forever'
Maybe there are studies looking at whether resolve is more likely to break with a 'permanent' philosophy towards it rather than 'a day at a time' attitude.
I don't find it particularly helpful to regard my resolve as 'making empty or improbable promises you have no way of being able to guanantee' However you dress it up there has to be a resolve /discipline in there somewhere
I am, humbly, new to all of this though (although I do have some insight/experience of the addict's behaviour) and I bow to you MIFLAW who has had 7 years of experience, not just your own but other people's

GGF

You should do what's right for you,you aren't drinking and that is all that counts.Sod tomorrow and next week/next year.I personally, live in the moment and if I'm not drinking in this moment,it's a good thing.

I don't buy into dry drunk thinking-you are either drinking or you aren't.

It's different for everyone,don't beat yourself up ggf.

Yup, sensible words, Posh.
How did the GP go?

Appointment tmrw afternoon.No doubt it's nothing to worry about,just tired of feeling tired all the time and I probably could do with a LFT and blood pressure check (teenage daughter arghhhhhhh)!!!

Glad you are faring well ggf

GGF

All I can tell you is that, even in AA, I tried all three of the scenarios I outline and I drank again with all of them. My record of not drinking, in AA, with those strategies, was 6 months. When I drank after 6 months, it was immediately just as bad as it had been before those 6 months.

Since then, for 7 years and a bit, I have daily made a deal with myself that I will not drink that day and that I will handle tomorrow when it comes. And I have not taken a single alcoholic drink in that time. (FWIW, my record without AA altogether was a couple of days - I am not a natural abstainer.)

The honest answer to your question is that "today" NEVER becomes "always". That's why I call it "today". But, over that 7 years, the decision has become almost completely automatic so that I need not spend time worrying about whether or not I will drink today.

Look, alcohol is not cocaine or heroin. Every single day of your life, unless they try prohibition over here (which doesn't work anyway as the Americans proved) you have a choice whether or not to drink. You saying now "I'm never going to drink again" doesn't take that choice away. Every time someone invites you o a party, every time you passa pub, every time you have to walk down the booze aisle in tesco, you have that choice, whether you want it or not. So, to me, it has been an immensely practical process to live in those facts and make the choice on a daily basis.

As posh says, you must do what works for you. But my experience - often painful - has been that what you propose does not work for me. By rights, it should; logically, a decision never to drink again ought to be easier to keep than a decision not to drink today; but my experience is that it doesn't and it isn't.

Yes, I understand the logic Miflaw, and I'm beginning to understand more. I hope I don't sound like an intransigent old bag with impossibly high expectations of myself and everyone else. I suppose I'm just trying to navigate through a life-changing decision and breaking a very hard habit. It throws up all sorts of speculation and I suppose one could become a little introspective and indulgent about it and am trying to find a balance between over-philosophising and finding serious strategies that work for me.
Your support is extremely valuable and I thank you.

Hi-looking at the things miflaw says- what I get from this is... it's just easier sometimes to break it up, when everything seems overwhelming, to think, 'ok, I won't drink while I feel like this...let's see how I feel in an hour'...then you realise you can do it, you've passed the 'trigger time' etc...

God grahamgreene, you sound exactly like I remember feeling...I hated to think I would never drink again...sometimes(often I still do)I hated the thought of keeping everything'just for today', because of course we have to plan our lives...but it is about keeping alcohol in the 'just for today' ...or even 'just for the next ten minutes ' zone...because it helps people cope with cravings I guess. Lots of addiction therapies use this type of technique- keeping thing simple,etc.

I remember doing it 10 minutes at a time, in the early days..god it was awful...which is why I guess I am drawn to these threads, because mny drinking weas much heavier than anyone her eis admitting to...and if I can get sober..well, it's just to give youse all hope that it can be done, that's all.

The early days are crap- but also great- the first time I went to a shop without buying alcohol..first time I slept properly(my drinking was a lot heavier tbh than what people on here are saying, means I had more physical affects...)m first time in ages I had sex sober??!! lol.

Anyway, good on youse for being honest- it's a support thread and honesty is the first, and most difficult step x

You're welcome and i honestly take no offence.

The danger of logic is that, by the sounds of it, this is not something that has previously applied to your drinking and there is no reason why it would start now. Logic says that, if you are drinking too much, you cut down and, if you can't cut down, you stop. And yet for me (I can only really speak for myself and say that you sound like we might have things in common) that sort of "logic" just didn't work. Whatever happened, I drank and, when I should have drunk less, I drank more. When I started stopping drinking I was a trainee teacher - I was no park bench drunk - yet inside I was a mess. If you think of it, not drinking is ridiculously easy - you literally have to do nothing. And yet it was like there was a magnet in my hand and another one in the glass. Decisions not to drink, to drink less, even just to drink later, were no match for that pair of magnets. Whenever anyone made logical suggestions my response, one way or another, was always, "yes, but you don't understand ..." Of course they didn't understand - my drinking was illogical. As I say, I've tried drinking since and each time it was just as illogical as it was when I left off.

You say "nothing today but maybe tomorrow because it's Brian's birthday". Well, yes - maybe tomorrow. But not today. Today is today and tomorrow is tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow I will be hit by a car. Maybe tomorrow I will wake up and find I am cured of alcoholism and find I can drink "normally" (though why I would want to is beyond me - drinking "normally" never looked particularly tempting, to be honest - why stop when you're having fun?) Maybe, for the first time in my life, some bad men will hold me down and pour a drink down my throat. I don't know what tomorrow holds so there's no sense worrying about it, except insofar as I can ready myself for it. I do that by not drinking today (so I don't wake up with the craving), trying to be grateful I haven't drunk today (so I don't wake up with a chip on my shoulder) and doing what I can to minimise the other strifes in my life (so I don't wake up with a ready made excuse to drink.) When I wake up in form like that, I find the decision "do I want to drink today?" is pretty easily taken. As I say, it works for me.

Incidentally, have you ever sworn off before? If so, what happened to make you change your mind?