Can I stop forever?

[grahamgreenefanatic]

I need to stop drinking forever. I've always drunk to get drunk since I was 18, I'm now 45. Is it better to say 'never again', or 'small achievable steps at a time' Is there anyone out there who can help or who feels they need it?

Great post, teasle!

Thanks MIFLAW!
...but to be really honest, what I find hard is this...

I was a REALLY heavy drinker, took me ages to accept I needed some support...but I know how great it is when I got support with my problem(search my name?) but I feel almost like people see me as---cos I am in recovery...as different...but I am not...I will always need to have support- not saying youse all will...just ...I know how I felt about people 'in recovery' when I was still drinking...they said things I didn't want to hear...but it was for a very good reason...oh I guess I am at a further end of the spectrum, but I can identify with all the things you are saying- how hard it is, etc etc...so...am just here to offer support to youse...I only know my experience, I know loads of people who drink heavily, realise they have a poroble,m and then can go back to social drinking..I'm just not one of them!

Sorry, rather a ramble, but the kids are busy

Thank you Teasle. Yes, I'm struggling with this idea of 'just not today' and 'never' still, but you and Milfaw are helping me to slowly understand. Paradoxically, I'm actually frightened of saying 'just not today' in case my mind gives me quiet tacit permission to do it tomorrow. However, as Miflaw says, tomorrow is another day when you can renew that resolve ( and you may not be in the middle of trigger time tomorrow either) Just 'not now' is good (especially as it may be Brian's birthday today and right now he's coming in the door waving a bottle or 5.) Everyday is Brian's birthday aka trigger time at the moment, (Ah.. I can see 'Brian's birthday' becoming an affectionate term in my house.)
How much were you drinking Teasle?
No, MILFAW, I've never sworn off before, although I have given up for a month at a time sometimes, always knowing, of course that I would go back to it. I'm fed up with making bargains with myself to cut down. ( I can't, like you, why stop when you're having fun?) Therefore the decision to stop completely evolved after a lot of honest thinking about myself.

Teasle

Absolutely agree about how "people in recovery" appear when you're still deciding if you really have a problem.

I always like to encourage others when I can and, when I meet someone in a meeting who says, "I've only been sober a fortnight," I pick them up on that "only." For a start, in most cases, it's the longest they've been sober for some time - but also, at 7 years, I know I must seem like an alien to a lot of newcomers (when I was new, I just assumed people with years of sobriety were either lying or they were medically different to me - how can anyone, especially a man, not drink for over a year?) But someone who's sober a fortnight - a newcomer can look at them like some sort of superhero. "Maybe I could do that, if i really really try," they think. And the seed is sown. So in many ways the guy or woman with "only" two weeks is a lot more inspirational than I can ever be.

I'm impressed, too, that you come out and say how much you drank. I think I play it down on here in case someone says, "oh, I don't drink that much, I'm not like MIFLAW, I'm safe for now." But the truth is I DID drink a lot. I wonder who is lurking here who also really drinks a lot? If so, I hope your (and my belated) openness can help them too.

For what it's worth, I find it easier to think of myself as closer to the 'never' camp than the 'just for today' camp. That doesn't mean that I don't keep it in the day, but when I stopped it was easier for me to say just that - I've stopped, like quitting smoking - rather than 'I'll see how it goes'. Then the whole concept of a Brian's birthday () doesn't come up. Instead of thinking 'maybe I'll have a drink with Brian' I could say to myself 'but I don't drink any more, so I'll have Diet Coke and that'll be fine'. It took away the possibility of drinking, there was no excuse.

Don't know if I've put that very well. The most important thing, actually, is (and I think I've said this before) the joy to be got from feeling free of the grip of booze. Not 'I can't do that any more' but 'I choose not to do that any more', and having all those doubts and Brian's birthday moments fade away. It's life-changing and brilliant.

Sometime I have 'drinking dreams' where I down a gin and tonic without realising, or 'forget' that I'm sober and get smashed with an old friend. I can't tell you the relief when I wake up and find it's not real - because my life is so infinitely better now, and I'm amazed at the sense of devastation and loss I feel even in a dream, when I think I've gone back to the old drinking days. So the choice is simple, really.

Ah, CJC, that's me. You put it very well. There is a freedom in knowing you choose this option no more. That's it. Here comes Brian and he's already looking for other mates, not me..
The drinking dreams too. I had one the other night and woke up actually feeling hung over for a while! But the relief was inexpressible.

I'm glad it made sense, GGF. Having said it, though, I should add that I think it's very difficult to do without support. I did five months on my own but found it very lonely and often confusing. You need a support group, IMO, whether it's AA or a sober friend or a thread like this one. Reasons why:

1. It's incredibly difficult to sustain on your own, without some to discuss it with who understands what you're talking about.

1. There's always a danger of getting cocky and thinking you can drink again - I did this just a few months ago (thankfully didn't succumb). If you keep talking to other people about it, this is less likely to happen. Especially if you get reminders of how much you lost to drinking, and how much you have gained from stopping.

1. For me and many others on this thread, it's not just about how much we drank but the reasons why we drank. Again, talking to others who have a similar relationship with alcohol helps to unravel some of this and consequently life gets better - it's not just about the health aspects, but (as already mentioned) about living an honest life.

That's my experience, anyway. I'm not advocating any particular 'method', but I do think support is a massive contributor to successful and happy sobriety, with no regrets and no looking back.

Ahoy there Ms Cregg!

thanks for the welcomes

I've been reading the thread and finding some pretty inspirational stuff here. I was also on the support thread with teasle and really miss the support that it gave me. Well Done on the 10 days GGF

Back on track today although the temptation was strong this evening. My DH is such a star though and helped me through it. There is some booze in the house though; stuff I don't normally drink and I can cope with that. show me a bottle of red wine though and I couldn't leave it alone. I have been drinking between 50 and 70 units a week; that's about 5-7 bottles of red wine.

I think I'm also leaning on the "for today" side of the fence. If I think too long about never drinking ever again, it makes me feel pretty bleak, partly because it's been such a huge part of my life and something that I really enjoy (also in the Why stop camp and have never been able to have "just the one"). I think for me as well, part of it is not wanting to admit that my relationship with alcohol is unhealthy. DH thinks that I shouldn't worry too much about labelling myself as an alcoholic or a dependant drinker as he thinks this will make me more inclined to fail, if that makes sense. I think what he's saying is that if I crumble and have a drink, I will justify it by saying "oh well, I'm a problem drinker so failure is only to be expected". I can see what he means, but perhpas he is over analysing it? One thing I do know, is that it is a very confusing time.....

Back to the booze we have in the house; gin, white wine and some pear cider, as well as a dodgy bottle of sherry that DH got given at work. I can happily forget they are there. My internal wrangle is that if I can leave them alone, do I actually have a problem? and if I can leave them alone, then I can manage my relationship with red wine. Is it just about a particular drink for most people? I ask because my SIL is an alcoholic and she will down anything she can get her hands on to the point that we used to hide any booze when she was due for a visit as other people's drink cabinets weren't off limits to her. I tell myself I am not like her therefore do not have a serious problem.
Sorry if these questions seem really ignorant; I don't want to offend anyone, but these thoughts have been whirling round in my head all evening.

Hello All - GGF, Posh, MIFLAW, Teasle,CJ - hope I haven't missed anyone.

Well done for keeping it up GGF.

Am getting pretty excited at the fact its the last week of Jan and by end of week I won't have touched a drop for almost a whole month which I haven't done for ages.

I love the whole thing about Brian's birthday - its exactly the situation where all good resolutions break down and I guess I'm a bit of an all or nothing person - once I've done one day I'll be thinking - oh well might as well just write off the whole week/ month/ year ....

I can see the point of the 1 day at a time thing but it would be nice to think that I won't have to think about it for every day of this year (did I say a year at the beginning - can't remember).

I hope I'll get there - have got there with giving up smoking which I did about 8 years ago. Sometimes I do look at people smoking and feel a bit wistful but then remember the horrid smell, stinky clothes etc. Has to be said though giving up smoking was helped by Nicotine replacement which sadly doesn't exist for wine - wine gums not the same as Nicotine chewing gum .

Have passed my alcohol free evening catching up on a bit of work and eating a nutritious supper of chips. GOing out with old friend on Weds who I once fell out with rather badly when drunk and argumentative. It'll be a real pleasure to know that we can have a nice evening with no risk (on my part at least) of a repeat performance.

Keep up the good work.

Daisy

As well as drinking a lot, I used to smoke heavily too - 40 Marlboro reds a day. If I didn't have the money I would find it, even when briefly on the dole.

Would you say that I didn't have a problem with smoking because I never tried a pipe/

also, don't be so certain you would leave the sherry alone if ever you were properly short of a drink ... All of us will drink our preferred beverage as long as we can get hold of it. If you are able to afford 10 bottles of red a week and someone will sell it to you, why on earth would you touch the sherry?

Focus on the similarities, not the differences, as they say.

Good to hear from you MissNash,
Great to hear you're coming up for a month. You must feel very pleased and better too.
I hope you enjoy your night out with your friend, isn't it nice to know that the' bete noir' that came between you previously is now a white pussycat?
Daisy. you sound so much like me, with all the wrangles about how much one drinks and how it affects you.
I felt it was not so much about how much (although I knew I was drinking too much) but more about how it influenced my behaviour. I realised I had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol because sometimes I drank so much I'd fall over, or become argumentative with DH. I did not want the children seeing me like that nor did I want alcohol to come between DH and me. I think he was starting to worry about how much I would drink every time we went out, unless I was driving. That isn't a good situation. I think there are people out there who drink more than me. However it is one's individual assessment of how alcohol influences them as to how they manage the problem.
A bit further back in the thread, I was talking about personal 'nadirs', one person's nadir is another's 'Oh, sod it, didn't want that to happen.. but there'
I don't think, as MIFLAW says, that you need to end up on a park bench for it to become a problem. I felt a personal sense of relief when I told myself I was a dependent drinker. Only then could I move on to do something about it. It's raw and humiliating to have to admit it.
I also, as mentioned before, live in a small community and have a high profile job representing responsible lifestyle choices. How dishonest can one get?
I grappled with all the things you are but realised in the end that my next drink is going to be the same as my last; I cannot drink responsibly. Therefore I came to my decision.
As far as labelling goes, You can manipulate anything if you want to. If you don't label yourself say, 'Dependent drinker' you can give yourself license to drink as much as you want to. If, on the other hand, you label yourself that, you can manipulate it so that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, and you will fail because you've set yourself up to fail.
For me, I had to just be brutally honest with myself.
Hope this helps

I would like to go on record, by the way, as saying that I have NO idea who Brian is. The name just came to me. I am clearly inspired.

Hi All, glad to see all the positive and supportive messages. This is day 26th for me and this morning took myself off to GP for Liver test. Results in next week and really scared as have promised I would do this for such a long time and now I have to face the facts . I do feel really good today - calm and emotionally really happy even though I am concerned about the test results. Anyway just wanted to dip in. Sunday is looming (last day of Jan) and not sure what I will do in relation to having a drink but will just see how it goes. At the moment I don't want to drink and undo all the good I have done in Jan. I am finding that I am running much further and have more stamina which has surprised me. Apologies if I am rambling on about myself but just wanted to post this so I can look back and remind myself of all the positives of not drinking. GGF you have done amazingly well. When you read your Opening post and now the latest it's such a quick (although probably seems much longer to you) turnaround. Daisy think we were on the same thread before - do you remember Kokeshi? MIFLAW messages really remind me of her great wisdom so thanks for that. Keep posting.

Hi all,

Try not to see the LFT as a negative Flower,if there are any issues,you are all ready on the sober path and in the process of erradicating toxins from your body.

I'm off to my gp later and no doubt I will have a barriage of bloods taken,which will include a LFT,if there are discrepancies when I recieve the results it will gee me on more to continue with my sobriety.You cannot change the past,you can however,make choices in the here and now.

We have alcohol in the house.There is about 45 pints of lager in my larder which my husband has brewed since before christmas.I've not felt tempted to sample it (it probably tastes vile anyways )but then I wouldn't of if I was still drinking,not unless I had drank a vat full of wine,once inebriated I would of drunk anything to 'top me up'.

I don't intend to beat myself senseless with guilt and shame or to reliving my previous drinking patterns and behaviour,I don't find it mentally strengthing for me,it creates huge negativity and self indulgence. The practicalitites of the here and now is most important and of course, positivity!

Strength & positivity to you all!

Hello again.
I didn't drink last night and I won't tonight.
I'm feeling really depressed at the moment and not particularly in control of things. I slept well last night for a change and this morning felt a litle happier.

I wanted to ask about liver function tests. I had bloods done a couple of times in A&E before Christmas. Would they have included liver function, do you think, and would they have said if they had seen anything?
I feel I should get them done but don't like to admit I have a problem to the GP.

Sorry, should say I have not read down the thread so I might have missed something!

Hey Flowertop - don't think about Sunday - days away, anything could happen between now and then. I'd be happy to keep you company with a lemonade or two in February.

Just have a nice sober day today - think of something really delightful to conjure up for yourself when you get to the trickiest time of day.

I have got a packet of cashew nuts sitting mouthwateringly on my sideboard waiting for the moment when kids are in bed and can turn on Holby City ... bliss.

Whats on your sideboard oh sober ones?

Berrie,
It depends what you were in hospital for; do I remember you saying you had surgery? If so, it is almost a foregone conclusion that you had LFTs done. If they had been wildly deranged, it probably would have been addressed by the anaesthetist if not one of the junior team. They would also have (hopefully) mentioned it on your discharge summary to the GP. Having said that, things get overseen even with the best of intentions, communication breaks down, things get forgotton. Usually and again hopefully they are details that don't matter.
There is probably no harm in ringing the secretary of the doctor/surgeon you were under, who will dig out your notes and be able to tell you the results. ( also ask if there is an MCV)
Really sorry that you're feeling down, I'm sending you a big surge of Poshwellies strenth and positivity.
Flowertop, congratulations, how will you feel about going back to drinking? Or will you? Remember what you loved about not drinking? anyway, good luck.

Haven't read the whole thread but my story is similar to some of the ones I have had a look at. Drank very heavily for years and years - to the extent that most of my eldest daughters childhood is a blank . I blamed everything and everyone but the drink and was a terrible mess. It was on the day of my dear mother in laws funeral - feb 2nd last year, I couldn't go because of the weather and the children and I was stuck at home alone with my usual two or three bottles of wine...something (someone?) made me really think very hard about what the hell was happening to me and I stopped. That Night. No AA personally just sheer wanting to be someone else - oe maybe the real me instead of the mess... And here I am. I feel well, I look well, I have got a very stressful but rewarding job and I can wacth my little ones grow up without a blurred and fuzzy outline. Just reading them bedtime stories is a joy as I could never do that with my dd19 It's like anything, you must WANT to do it. It's still hard at times, but it is worth it.

Good Luck.

some fantastic words from Miflaw and GGf, thanks

hi flowertop; nice to see a familiar face . I talk to kokeshi sometimes on facebook, but she hasn't been around for ages. I also talk to teasle, purpleone and a couple of others from the old thread regularly.

re LFTs, the liver is a pretty resilient organ and can recover from a lot of abuse as far as I understand, so there is probably a lot of undue worrying going on. And on that note, I had my gallbladder removed last year, and at my follow up appointment quizzed my consultant on the state of my liver! He said there were no obvious problems with it and it looked as healthy as he would expect for someone of my age with a bit of a weight problem. His only note of caution was to lose weight....and I assume I had LFTs done as part of the routine care as well. I must admit though, when the pain first started I was terrified it was a liver thing and was almost relieved to know it was just my gallbladder!

I had LFT's done after I'd stopped too - it was the only time I was really really scared. Luckily all was ok

Thanks GGF.
They didn't take bloods before the surgery as they thought me to be young and fit.

I was back in A&E twice following discharge which is when they took blood. I was having unexplained, acute pain in my head. I think they were looking for some sort of infection. I was in for a week, it's a bit of a blur so I'm not sure whether more blood was part of the investigations. I had to tell a lot of people how much I drank. I guess I'll just have to go to the GP. I'm on quite a cocktail of painkillers and anti depressants so I'm rather worried about how my liver is dealing with it all especially as my younger brother has had to stop drinking because of his results.

HI everyone, have been reading all of your interesting posts.

GrahamGreene- really interested in what you wrote- whether you think you have a problem or difficulty IS such an individual experience isn't it?
I could really tell you how exactly much I drank at my worst...but this is still a public forum and it is a difficult thing ...it is bad enough to call my drinking alcoholic, if I were a man...but to have been a woman...with children? Very difficult. I could CAT you if you really wanted to know.

Forgot to ask-how is everyone this evening?