Lets get this into perspective: Quick Survey -Do you know anyone that has had/has Swine Flu?

[NorbertDentressangle]

...and I don't mean that you've "heard that someone at X school/street/place" has had it, I mean someone that you actually know really has had it/has got it.

I don't know anyone that has and wondered if thats the case for the majority of people on here or not?

Don't know anyone as yet

Thanks for the link Squeakywheel.

This bit from the link surprised me, and for me helps get current sit into perspective -

"During the 1999 to 2000 winter, seasonal flu deaths reached 21,000 and even during average winters there are normally anywhere between 6,000 to 8,000 deaths."

But also take on board what they say about it being surprising for pandemic to take off in way this apparently is, in summer season.

But still feel some of it is all a bit vague - I mean where are these hospitals with wards full of children with swine flu? Does anyone out there know?

Did anyone else notice the 21,000 flu deaths in 1999-2000, or was it just me who was celebrating the millenium a bit too heartily.

It isn't surprising to people who know about pandemics in the past: they were often identified because they occured in the summer months and not the 'normal' winter flu.

I am not completely sure but I think we're also talking about additional deaths from new flu viruses, not replacement ones.

So 21000 might not seem so out of proportion when discussed in relation to 8000 normal flu deaths. But, really, in context, we ought as a society to try and prevent between 13000 and 35000 (or whatever) extra unnecessary deaths, oughtn't we? And the vast amount of secondary complications that a high infection rate will cause?

I still don't think this is panic. I think it is realistic preparedness. There will always be collateral panic fuelled by a good story. But even when you allow for that, experts are still saying they just don't know whether this will blow over in a mild way, or become more dramatic.

I didn't notice the flu in 1999 at all

Re the wards full of kids with SF...to put that in perspective, the wards are full of kids with RSV bronchiolitis every single winter. For months. Small children need support with respiratory viruses more often than bigger kids/adults, I think...dd2 nearly died of it (she has 'underlying health issues') as a baby...but none of that hits headlines. I'm not sure this is any different, apart from the season.

A lot more of those were older people so probably they weren't noticed as much, no. Which doesn't mean that's how it should have been, of course!

But wards full of children with SF aren't making headlines, actually. That line was halfway down a story about possible projected deaths overall from SF, not a headline at all, and I haven't seen it as a headline anywhere (maybe I've missed it). Are you saying it just shouldn't be reported at all?

Every plane crash that's ever happened (at least back to the first!) has been preceded by another one, and every plane crash that's ever happened has happened at a time when people were also dying in road accidents and from everyday illnesses at the same time. That aeroplanes crash sometimes is not 'news'. But crashes still get reported in the papers and it would be bizarre if they didn't even get mentioned. Surely the same goes for unusual epidemics of disease?

Two children in DS's class, plus a teacher at school.

No, I'm not saying the wards full of children with swine-flu shouldn't be reported. Not at all.

I think I'm just reflecting on how difficult it is to make sense of what is actually going on, and that lines such as "wards full of children with Swine flu" , without any further detail or anything to help put this into context (such as Elibean's post has), do not help me with this.

I only included that quote about children's wards because it's a sign that swine flu really is making more people ill, it's not just the worried well phoning up about cold symptoms creating an illusion of increased illness. How does knowing that children also get hospitalised with bronchiolitis change that ? Obviously children's wards are regularly full of ill children with one thing or another, that's what they're for. The point is, right now they're also (in those areas) filling up with children suffering from swine flu. So, swine flu is out there making people ill - it's not just a fiction created by the media (which is what ottersRus was speculating about).

For 'ottersRus' read 'you', there.

If I'd said "you ought to panic, children's wards are filling up with swine flu victims!" then fair enough, pointing out that they regularly fill up with children with bronchiolitis too would put that into context. But I didn't say that. I was just pointing out that swine flu really is making people ill, it's not just an illusion caused by media hype.

Though given we don't know how far from the peak of infections we are, if wards really are literally 'full', then there might be a bit of cause for concern there in case they run out of beds. It would be daft not even to consider that (and I imagine that's what half of pandemic planning is about).

Not taking issue with anything you've said Squeakywheel, rather with the bbc reporting that you linked to.

I know someone who has it. Well they suspect they have it and are in isolation (at home).

They told the GP(over the phone) the symptoms and he said sounds like swine flu stay in and ring me if no improvement.

Six people I know have had it, two confirmed via swab. All within one week.

Can I just say it really irritates me when people downplay swine flu by comparing it to seasonal flu?

Seasonal flu is also a serious illness - always has been! - for people in higher risk categories.

With relation to the swine flu, it a) affects a different age-grouping of people to the norm; b) it infiltrates deeper within the respiratory system than seasonal flu, putting people with respiratory conditions at greater risk than is usual and c) the symptoms are a great deal more sudden than typical flu with onset of a rapid viral pneumonia being more common.

Yes, for the majority of healthy people, it will be a couple of days off work feeling lousy..

BUT

for those of us in higher risk categories (significant/severe asthma, pregnancy, diabetes, immunosuppression), it could very well be life-threatening.

The official advice is that for the majority of people - even those with underlying health conditions - it will be mild.. but there is, of course, no data to back this up as this hasn't been tracked and probably a good deal of what's being diagnosed as swine flu actually isn't swine flu at all.

Meanwhile, of those who actually do have swine flu, 652 people are in intensive care. Many of them will recover.. but that doesn't mean that being in ICU is a mild case. Also, isn't anyone asking themselves why we have 652 in intensive care OUT of seasonal flu season whereas Australia, which has three times the number of swine flu cases as the UK, has only 75? Let's not kid ourselves this thing is under control or not worthy of serious attention. Not panic, maybe, but serious attention.

Don't know anyone who has had it. My BIL did have awful flu which I think now might have been diagnosed as swine flu.

It hasn't really hit up here yet AFAIK

Worry doesn't help best to just eat and sleep well per this article ARTICLE

Sorry to hear. My asthmatic DD had chest infection with SF and did well at home with ABs and TamiFlu. obviously every case is different but I would have been concerned by hospitalisation as I would think that she is bound to get better care at home. But then you are ill with it aren't you? Has paed told you why stay hom option isn't a good idea?

Goodness, am not taking issue with you either, squeaky! Really not. I just found it helped me get things in perspective (and I did see a headline, online, nothing to do with your post or your link, about chlldrens wards being full etc) to remember that there are other viruses that cause mayhem with acute respiratory illness, which most people - obviously not all (dd nearly being one of them) - recover from. It helped me not panic.

I am certainly not down-playing the potential impact of swine flu - I have three asthmatics at home, one of them with a floppy larynx. Ditto seasonal flu - dd and dh get flu jabs every year for that, for exactly the reasons mentioned below.

But because this is new, and in summer months, and still such an unknown, it feels scarier. Of course it should be reported, but there is a lack of context in some of the reporting which, to me, is not helpful.

Yes, one person - my best friend, who lives in London, had it. She was more or less bedridden for the first week and house-bound for the second, so had to take a lot of time off work, and is only just feeling herself, a good week after she returned to work. She does seem to have had it quite badly.

I have taken the approach of Elibean in terms of thinking that there are deadly viruses which have been for sometime. We were dealing with DD calmly and then she had her worst day at the same time that the story broke about girl dying from it. Didn't help one bit that.

I know there are 3 people at DH's work that are quarantined with it and receiving visits from doctors for various jabs apparently. Theres a little boy from morning nursery where ds attends in afternoons.

ds had a bout of the runs and sickness as well slight increase in temp about 2 weeks ago - possibly swine flu? I don't know - he was well again in 3 days.

I currently have sore throat, cough, slight runs and backache/headache. No way will I call the docs for that. I have cold capsules and that will do for me.

So far dh and dd all fine with no cold symptoms at all.
I'm not afraid of swine flu as it is NOW - I'm afraid of what it could potentially mutate into. Right now it's mild in most cases where medication often isn't required but if it gets worse think I'll be crafting our own little bubble for me and my family to live in

Loads of people but then I live in London