Refusing to vaccinate

[popsadaisy]

I went to vaccinate my one year old yesterday and I was so surprised when the nurse told me that some parents still refuse vaccinations. I am genuinely intrigued as to why this is?

Romany - I completely agree.

Fab. What are these "extra precautions" that I and children who couldn't be vaccinated can take then to protect ourselves from catching life threatening diseases from those who choose not to be vaccinated?

Maybe we just make the non Vaxers walk, get groceries delivered and home educate? Then they won’t be spreading their germs.

I honestly don’t know what planet the anti-vaxxers are on. Their children pose a very real health risk to other children. I saw a debate on this recently, a position was put forward to stop children attending school unless they were vaccinated. I don’t agree with this but I do think more needs to be done in terms of education.

Maybe we just make the non Vaxers walk, get groceries delivered and home educate? Then they won’t be spreading their germs.

Well, the alternative is that adults and children on chemo, immunosuppressants or who couldn't be vaccinated for medical reasons are the ones who have to stay home or be home schooled and that doesn't seem right.

Parents don’t always know what’s best or do what is best for their child (recent vegan child who was almost starved to death by her idiot patents).

Maybe keep anti vaxers in bubbles. They’d probably like that.

Then we need rules in place to stop them from being a risk to others.

I wouldn't make them vaccinate but if they choose not to then they should nit be allowed to be in a position to put other people at risk.

I agree. Being stupid is no excuse!

I honestly don’t know what planet the anti-vaxxers are on. Their children pose a very real health risk to other children.

Yes, but pointing this out, along with pointing out the factual problems with their arguments and daring to question them, is what qualifies a person as a nasty piece of work, apparently. Not knowingly putting other people, including infants, at risk of serious illness and death.

Funny old world.

Decomposing - I obviously don’t want my husband to catch mumps. However, he is aware of the risks and still doesn’t want DD to have MMR.

Regarding my reply to Romany, I agree with her statement that it is up to other people what they do. Everyone has the right to make their own decisions whether you agree with them or not.

Well, the alternative is that adults and children on chemo, immunosuppressants or who couldn't be vaccinated for medical reasons are the ones who have to stay home or be home schooled and that doesn't seem right.

Seems fine to me, it's not others fault you can't be immunised.

One of mine was mostly at home until starting school where he was finally immunised during y1.
It was my job to keep him safe, not the responsibility of everyone else.

So it's specifically the mmr you have issue with despite studies that show it doesn't cause autism?

Everyone has the right to make their own decisions whether you agree with them or not.

What about the argument that if you aren’t willing to do things to benefit the community (as well as benefiting the individual), you should have some of the benefits of being part of that community restricted for the good of community?

It’s honestly one I struggle with, because I really don’t think it’s fair to penalise children because of their parents’ choices. But the problem is other children are also affected. So if your choice has the impact of either restricting the educational choice for your child, or for someone else’s child (because your choice and the choice of other parents have made school unsafe for them), which child should lose out on that community benefit?

RomanyQueen1

See that seems a backward argument to me. Surely it should be the people who choose not to be responsible that should be penalised?

Why should those that choose to be irresponsible still be able to fully participate whilst those that can't are locked up in their homes, with no choice?

it is up to other people what they do

The whole success of the vaccination programme relies on the vast, vast majority of people being vaccinated, so the decision not to vaccinate does have consequences for the whole community. While it's only a tiny minority of selfish idiots choosing not to vaccinate, there remains enough coverage for herd immunity to work. If greater numbers decide not to bother because of something they watched on YouTube, the whole programme could become ineffective.

And I would like to assure any anti-vaxxer who thinks they make me feel guilty about pumping my children full of "toxins" that they couldn't be more wrong. I paid hundreds of pounds from my savings to get my DC vaccinated privately against meningitis B as they were too old for the NHS jab. I am so thankful that I live in a country where I am able to access that protection for my children.

Disease will choose anyone who hasn't been immunised, for whatever reason, it has no morals.
You add up the risks and do as you feel is best.
My ds also had really bad asthma and caught everything going.
I couldn't risk him catching one of the more severe diseases when he was so poorly and he was allergic to the immunisations.
So until he was strong enough he stayed at home with me.
It's not everybody else's responsibility.

Disease will choose anyone who hasn't been immunised, for whatever reason, it has no morals.

There will be less disease circulating if more people are vaccinated. That’s the point of herd immunity.

There isn’t a specific amount of eg measles virus out there at any one time. If enough people are vaccinated, there’s less disease overall and therefore those who can’t be vaccinated are much better protected.

It’s how smallpox was eradicated. It’s how some countries came incredibly close to eradicating measles.

It’s really crappy that your child’s inability to be immunised meant that it restricted his lifestyle. If all the healthy children who could have been vaccinated actually were, the risks to him from preventable diseases would have been so much lower.

JassyRadlett

Exactly.

Jassy

But even then there would be people not immunised due to illness, or allergies.
I'm not sure I'd still have trusted the lower risk tbh.

I know what you mean about herd immunity, it's why all ours were done, the others had no problem and done on time from babies.

But, I still think it's the choice of the parent. There is enough information out there for people to make an informed decision. People that choose not to aren't stupid people, they can read and evaluate research.

There is enough information out there for people to make an informed decision. People that choose not to aren't stupid people, they can read and evaluate research.

No there isn't. The majority of people don't have access to Google Scholar and if they did most would not be able to understand the journal papers.

Largely those that don't vaccinate because they think it causes autism or big pharma are experimenting on us or great aunts best friend's second cousins nephews girls friends child had a bad reaction are informed via YouTube or Facebook.

Which is great when your decisions don't impact on other people but when they do then you have a responsibility to those around you.

Take drink driving. Why is that illegal? Why isn't that a personal choice? After all, if you don't want to get knocked down by a drink driver then you coukd stay at home. Why should the personal choice of a drink driver be restricted for the safety of others? See how ridiculous the "personal choice" argument is when applied to other situations?

Unplanned pregnancy here, turned out is no vaccinations at all except for the BCG at school.

My mother died when I was young so no one knew. So every month of my pregnancy I had to have a whole load of blood tests to make sure I'd not contracted anything. Happily herd immunity protected me and my unborn child.

No there isn't. The majority of people don't have access to Google Scholar and if they did most would not be able to understand the journal papers.
Because if they were research literate then they'd understand the weight of scientific evidence.

Research almost always means reading some conspiracy theorist blog telling you not to trust medical research because it's bad.

^But even then there would be people not immunised due to illness, or allergies.
I'm not sure I'd still have trusted the lower risk tbh.^

I can understand that - but the numbers of unvaccinated for health reasons would be so low it would effectively stop disease circulating. Over time, that disease would be effectively gone.

It’s a question of competing rights. Does someone’s right not to vaccinate their child trump someone else’s right to a safe education for their poorly child? There are no easy answers.

Given some of the responses on this and other threads, I do take issue with the idea that all who choose not to vaccinate are doing so in an informed, evidence-based way. Posters taking about ‘logic’ without even looking at data; posters talking about fallacious ideas of MMR vaccine shedding, let alone the ongoing autism stuff.