Refusing to vaccinate

[popsadaisy]

I went to vaccinate my one year old yesterday and I was so surprised when the nurse told me that some parents still refuse vaccinations. I am genuinely intrigued as to why this is?

I didn't tell you that at all in reference to the specific fact that post referred to.

No, you refused to share your sources and said you’d already told us where we could find the info.

Looking back on your posts, the source material you seem to refer to was YouTube. Do you have actual sources for that specific claim? Could you link please?

There was a case of a vaccinated person who infected at least another vaccinated person.

No one says the vaccine is 100% effective. As everyone has said. Repeatedly. However, it’s very effective in preventing spread of the disease if vaccination rates are high enough to protect the small minority in whom the vaccine does not confer immunity, the very young, those who cannot be vaccinated and the immunocompromised.

But by conflating vaccine-acquired measles (no documented cases of transmission to another person that I can find; you were going to share your source?) and wild-acquired measles in someone previously vaccinated you are either lying or being foolish. I’m not clear which.

This is what happen. Anti-vaxxers add two and two and get fifteen.

There are cases of vaccine reaction or damage. Correct.

Vaccines are not 100% preventative in all cases. Correct.

And they make; vaccines are useless, don't work, hurt your children and are a conspiracy. Who's a what now?

I’ve found this a really interesting thread. I didn’t know about the risks around people with non immunity to rubella, for example. How do you know if you’re not immune, do you get routinely tested?

I agree with pp who said aggression and mockery, while I understand the strong feeling, is probably not a good idea. Recently there was a guardian article linking to research showing that antivaxxers who were given scientific info actually became stronger in their antivax views. Human interest stories and empathy for their fears were found to be more effective. In general calling people stupid is not the best way to get the best out of them.

I have a friend who is an antivaxxer, I was so shocked when I found out as she is a considerate person in general. Me and DH have been discussing it this week as we are holidaying with her and her 18mo old in the summer, but have just realised our DD will be 10mo then and unvaccinated. We considered pulling out but have looked at the stats for number of cases of measles and there are none in the part of England where she is from. Are we mad to share a house with her? We feel uncomfortable but decided on balance that baby could be around unvaccinated kids everywhere and we wouldn’t know.

Agreed. In context of the "unvaccinated person cooing at your baby scare story" any infected person could spread the disease.
It wasn't a 'scare story', it was to show that someone infected with measles is MUCH less obvious than someone blowing fag smoke in your infants face. And yes, any infected person could spread the disease, but the infected person is MUCH less likely to have been vaccinated.

I agree with pp who said aggression and mockery, while I understand the strong feeling, is probably not a good idea.
Well, yes, I agree, but I've had it with them. I suppose if it was someone I actually knew, I'd try and have a calm, rational, polite conversation. But their fears are, on balance, irrational if most people are not immunised (because the risk of damage/death from one of these illnesses will be much, much higher than the risk of damage from any of the vaccines), and their attitude is selfish if most people are immunised (because they are shifting the limited risk onto everybody else by relying on herd immunity, while being happy for their child to be at risk of passing an infection to someone whose defences against it are limited).

Possibly if I'd seen less of the ill-effects of these diseases, I might be more sanguine. But I have seen them, so I'm not.

Some parent don't seem to think that it's necessary to protect society from deadly diseases so don't bother to vaccinate their own kids.
They seem to think their own kids won't get a disease because the rest of us 'bother' to vaccinate our kids and thus protecting theirs . 🙄🙄.
These are the first people to complain when their child becomes blind, deaf or dies from an easily prevented disease ( like measles) because 'we didn't know any better' or 'the government should raise more awareness'
Perhaps secretly they don't particularly care for their own kids enough to vaccinate them?
My own are vaccinated and I don't regret that at all.

I'm so confused by this idea that vaccinations cause Autism. I had a friend when my kids were young that I found out was anti-vaccinations. Her three kids had never had any vaccinations at all because she was afraid they would get Autism.

Well, two of her kids were diagnosed with Autism. I asked her if she would then get them vaccinated and she was adamant that she would not because they could get 'worse' Autism and the third might get it. And though she would mention the diagnosis of Autism, she still on some level, refused to believe that they actually had it, so she wouldn't look into how to better care for her children's specific needs. She was sure at some point their difficulties would disappear and she would be proved right that she had not vaccinated. It was a difficult mindset to understand.

There is no connection. The ‘research’ carried out by Wakefield was so fundamentally flawed I’m amazed any reputable publication published it. That man should have been dragged to court for his nonsense and I hope he has every child who has suffered or died on his stupid conscience. I also hope his swooning ninnies in America have the scales lifted from their eyes and see what he is.

I'm suprised noone has tried to sue Wakefield yet.

I had all my vaccines as a baby but until I was pregnant with my dd, I didn’t know I wasn’t immune against rubella. I had to have the injection again after I gave birth.

Only to have it again after I had ds as I was still showing I had no immunity against rubella.

So I was really relying on herd immunity there.

I’ll never forget when a mother tore strips off me and called me abusive because I vaccinated my children...ironic thing is, her kids were vaccinated. She had recently became anti-vaxxer

There is a need for the medical community to have a proper debate on this.

No there isn't, some things do not need debating. It would be like debating whether humans need food and water to live or that we don't need to breathe.

And yes there are people who claim to not need to eat.

“There is a need for the medical community to have a proper debate on this.”

They have.

People should make a well-informed decision for THEIR children.

To be clear, I am NOT anti vaccines per se and my DD has had all the routine ones - with the exception of MMR, flu and rotavirus. This is because I did my research and decided it wouldn’t be in her best interests to have these. She is due to have the single vaccine for measles at the end of May. She has natural immunity to rubella (like me) and will have the single vaccine for mumps separately in our home country.

It is worth mentioning that the head of the vaccination clinic where we live (affluent commuter town outside London) told me privately that she thinks the current immunisation schedule is ridiculous. She had asked why we had chosen not to have DD vaccinated for MMR and, whilst she disagreed with my reasoning and stressed that she believed it to be safe, she felt that to give it together with all the other vaccines at the same time to such a young child could not be a good thing.

It is also worth mentioning that my brother had MMR in the early eighties, is severely autistic and STILL got measles and mumps despite being vaccinated. We can’t prove MMR caused his autism, obviously, but he appeared to be a normally developing baby/young toddler prior to his vaccines. This is why I decided that my DD should have the single vaccines instead, still giving her the protection but not overloading her immune system.

“This is because I did my research and decided it wouldn’t be in her best interests to have these.”

So you studied medicine and immunology? I’m impressed- that’s certainly taking it seriously.

I did my research (opened a couple of fortune cookies) and decided to: have a new haircut/ divorce my husband/ emigrate/ drown my cat/ put the kids up for adoption... works on so many levels.

I don't understand how much more evidence people want. There's a plethora out there, peer reviewed, reliable sources, replicable. Some people are just willfully ignorant.

People will seek ‘facts’ to agree with their belief.

BetrandRussell and LordPro, did you actually read my post properly before you wrote your rather pathetic and patronising responses? My DD has had all her vaccinations with the exception of the ones I mentioned and will be getting single vaccines for measles and mumps. I am not anti vaccine, just pro making an informed decision without being a sheep.

My post also stated that even the head of my local vaccination clinic agreed that having MMR and about five other vaccinations at the same time is too much. Since single vaccines are offered for measles and rubella (unfortunately not mumps in the UK), I decided that this would be the safer option for my daughter.

So much venom for anyone with a different opinion to the majority. Could it be that we make you secretly feel bad/threatened about your decision to pump so many potentially toxic vaccines into your children without a second thought, just because the government/NHS tells you that it is safe?

“My post also stated that even the head of my local vaccination clinic agreed that having MMR and about five other vaccinations at the same time is too much. “

A private clinic I assume.....

There is no single mumps vaccine

“Could it be that we make you secretly feel bad/threatened about your decision to pump so many potentially toxic vaccines into your children without a second thought, just because the government/NHS tells you that it is safe?”
I gave it second and third thoughts. And I actually did some research. Incidentally - what does “potentially toxic” mean?

There's venom because your choices affect other people.

Not venom just incredulity at the selfishness and ignorance of some people (which wasn’t directed at Hopeful anyway).

BertrandRussell - funnily enough, no! One attached to my local - NHS - doctor’s surgery. She disagreed with my not giving my DD MMR but admitted that the current schedule of giving so many vaccines at once can’t be good for any very young child’s immune system.

Dementedpixie - I am aware of that, at least in the UK anyway. DD will be having it abroad.

Prequelle - they might, if vaccines actually conferred the protection they are supposed to. My brother still got both measles and mumps.

It is not manufactured anywhere from what I have read