Refusing to vaccinate

[popsadaisy]

I went to vaccinate my one year old yesterday and I was so surprised when the nurse told me that some parents still refuse vaccinations. I am genuinely intrigued as to why this is?

but the reason she got it was because parents sending their kids to school with open chicken pox!

Yes, this happened to us as well. It's THAT level of selfishness that won't vaccinate either (I'm guessing).

Child was sent to school, knowingly with chicken pox, and then DS caught it (extremely severe) and then 8 week old DD caught it too.

Hope your DD gets better soon BambooB

Chicken Pox isn’t all equal either. All you need is an Asian form of a virus and your child could be in hospital for days or weeks.

I have experience of a child with a heart transplant catching chicken pox and not surviving.

There wasn't a vaccine at that time.

I think a lot of people forget the generations in which children died en mass during outbreaks.

My dad was born in the 30s and remembers so many of his friends getting ill and dying. He also had his appendix out without the benefit of antibiotics. There is so much we take for granted!

I am just old enough to remember my mother worrying about crowded events in the summer because of polio. I also remember she had
cupboard full of National Health orange concentrate because the other mothers wouldn’t use it because of a rumour that it gave children polio.

Maybe anti-vaxxers should all go and live together into a little commune together away from those of us with herd immunity.

Unfortunately that commune is North London. And it's too near for comfort.

Case of vaccine-associated measles five weeks post-immunisation, British Columbia, Canada, October 2013 www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES2013.18.49.20649

Note from the link
Possible explanations for this prolonged shedding of measles vaccine virus include interference with the immune response by host or vaccine factors.

What is Eurosurveillance?
Eurosurveillance is a European peer-reviewed scientific journal devoted to the epidemiology, surveillance, prevention and control of communicable diseases, with a focus on such topics that are of relevance to Europe.

No one is saying that vaccines are risk free, just that the risk from the vaccine is much lower than the risk from going unvaccinated. Never mind the risk to other people.

Jenny - not sure what point you’re trying to make? The case report is looking at the prolonged vaccine-related shedding in the host child potentially leading to longer incubation period. It is not about virus shedding to others and transmission from the recently vaccinated to a another person. This explains the different ways the term is used.

Vaccine-related measles is well documented. As this paper notes, there have been no microbiologically confirmed transmission cases from vaccine-related measles, let alone cases from non-symptomatic recent vaccinees.

If the government wanted more people to vaccinate they should not have got rid of the choice of single vaccines.

Lots of people are not anti valuers but have reasons they don't like the schedule or the bundling of so many together.

Taking away the choice means pushing them to make a hard decision of Vax or no Vax. Some people would Vax but now refuse too...
I don't see why the govt did this to be honest.

Vaxxers not valuers, stupid auto correct.

Lots of people are not anti valuers but have reasons they don't like the schedule or the bundling of so many together.

What are those reasons?

There is a measles outbreak every couple of years or so within a religious community close to where I live (North London). MMR take-up is low although the laws of the religion in question do not forbid vaccinations and community leaders encourage take-up. I had no choice but to take my DC out and about in the local area when they were babies prior to being vaccinated and obviously there was a risk. I just had to hope for the best really.

Anyway, this situation is one of the reasons I don't see the point of the 'ban unvaccinated children from schools' argument (as it happens, the kids in this community already attend separate religious schools). Unvaccinated children can infect others in any public shared space. So if the purpose is to prevent them spreading the illness then they need to be banned from leaving their homes full stop. That is what actually happened in New York outbreak recently.

The school ban is a knee jerk reaction and anti-vaxx parents won't care anyway as they will just homeschool.

Pro-Vaccine Nurse of 22 Years Defends Her Family After Mumps Outbreak Among Her Fully Vaccinated Family as She was Wrongly Accused of Not Vaccinating
vaccineimpact.com/2019/pro-vaccine-nurse-of-22-years-defends-her-family-after-mumps-outbreak-among-her-fully-vaccinated-family-as-she-was-wrongly-accused-of-not-vaccinating/?fbclid=IwAR0ZvkM5OtcVvzkgAWfoqX3AuBZdk1H3KKlpTzGqfzOCyJkdB1djAhYusJI

Yes? No vaccine is 100% effective. As has been said on this thread a number of times. That’s one reason herd immunity and Hugh overall vaccination rates are so important from a public health perspective.

Is there an argument you’re trying to make?

Hey, nice impartial source you’re using there, Jenny17!

Is there an argument you’re trying to make?
I read your post the first time you asked and the second.

Hey, nice impartial source you’re using there, Jenny17!
Feel free to debunk the nurses claim. Anyone with links to pharma can ask for them to review the nurses story/claim.

“Feel free to debunk the nurses claim. Anyone with links to pharma can ask for them to review the nurses story/claim”
Don’t understand.

Sources linked to pharma are just as biased as yours.

I read your post the first time you asked and the second.

Er, well done?

The two articles you linked to say completely different things from each other. Neither undermines vaccination.

The first is an interesting outlier case in the acquisition of vaccine-related measles is the vaccinated subject.

The second is an example of common knowledge and that have been repeatedly discussed on this thread - no vaccine is 100% effective (though polio comes damn close) and some wane in effectiveness over time. The mumps vaccine is an example of both - it’s less effective than eg measles or rubella vaccines, and it wants more quickly.

It’s a little worrying that a nurse wasn’t aware of that, sure. But basically it’s a great argument for high vaccination rates to protect both those who can’t be vaccinated and those in whom the vaccine wasn’t effective.

Eastie, I agree with you that the risk is everywhere but there is good evidence that schools (and even more so residential university campuses) are particularly good environments for spreading disease (for influenza, for example, transmission among school children is considered to be a primary mode of disease propagation (Greer et al in 2010).

The close quarters for extended periods in schools, combined with the way kids naturally behave - fairly shite at basic infection control - seem to make a particularly fertile environment for sharing infections.

The two articles you linked to say completely different things from each other. Neither undermines vaccination.
Great observation.

4 out of 5 family members up to date with their vaccinations getting mumps could indicate that vaccine induced herd immunity did not work for them.

4 out of 5 family members up to date with their vaccinations getting mumps could indicate that vaccine induced herd immunity did not work for them.

Quite. That’s the worry about vaccine levels dropping. Herd immunity fails. People like this family are at risk.

People like this family are at risk because

a) the vaccine failed to immunise against mumps even though tests said at least 2 out of 5 were protected.
b) herd immunity failed within their family

or was caused by the vaccine www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094818/