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Refusing to vaccinate

299 replies

popsadaisy · 11/05/2019 08:00

I went to vaccinate my one year old yesterday and I was so surprised when the nurse told me that some parents still refuse vaccinations. I am genuinely intrigued as to why this is?

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 13/05/2019 17:59

When mmr first came out you only got 1 dose which doesn't give as good protection as 2 doses so a 2nd dose was added

Disfordarkchocolate · 13/05/2019 18:00

We had very bad and increasing reactions to childhood communications. We asked for advice and the advice we got was rubbish and condescending. Now he's older we're going to catch up. Better advice and support should have been provided.

LolaSmiles · 13/05/2019 18:03

So much venom for anyone with a different opinion to the majority.
The venom isn't for having a different opinion. It is for people believing some YouTubers and whack theories equates to research.

The earth isn't flat. It wasn't made in 6 days. People are entitled to believe scientifically inaccurate statements, but nobody has to pretend that their opinion and ignorance of evidence has anywhere near as much weight and value as scientific research.
Equally, having a different opinion doesn't affect other people. Choosing to expose a child to diseases that could permanently damage or kill them does affect other people. Choosing to dilute herd immunity for those who need it because mummy read on Facebook that big pharma is evil is ridiculous.

Could it be that we make you secretly feel bad/threatened about your decision to pump so many potentially toxic vaccines into your children without a second thought, just because the government/NHS tells you that it is safe?
See whack theories.

If you parent had cancer, would you want them to have chemo or radiotherapy? If your child was ill, would you want them to have medicine? If your child gets severely ill due to not vaccinating, will you turn down medical assistance because it's all full of toxins?
People who shout nonsense deserve the venom they get. The only reason they can take the risk is because they know herd immunity will probably keep their little one safe. I reckon their so called principles would go out the window if they were told their child was about to go into a school of unvaccinated children with a measles outbreak. It's easy to claim principles when someone else is holding a safety net.

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 18:10

Lola - ok. I don’t have the energy to debate this. I don’t have a problem with most vaccines, just the ones I mentioned and in the case of MMR it is more the fact that it is given with so many other vaccines at the same time. I have chosen for my daughter to have single vaccines as a result and am very happy with that decision. She still will be protected (and others that she comes into contact with) but without the huge overload of her immune system. It is also a question of choice, since I have the choice for her to have the single vaccines I have opted for it. God forbid and a member of my family had cancer or any other serious illness, of course I would want them to have chemo/medication regardless of side effects as their life would be at stake. If single vaccines weren’t available I might have decided differently regarding MMR.

dementedpixie · 13/05/2019 18:12

Merck (who was the only supplier of single mumps vaccines) stopped making them years ago so it's not available anywhere in the world

JassyRadlett · 13/05/2019 18:29

I am not anti vaccine, just pro making an informed decision without being a sheep.

I question how informed your decision actually is, given that a single mumps vaccine hasn’t been manufactured for quite some time. Where do you think you’ll have the mumps vaccine?

My post also stated that even the head of my local vaccination clinic agreed that having MMR and about five other vaccinations at the same time is too much.

Did you ask for the evidence base/research on which the statement was based or just believe the statement, in the manner of the sheep you disdain so much?

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 18:46

Jassy - I knew that the mumps vaccine isn’t available here and in some parts of the world, I didn’t realise that it is no longer available anywhere. I am not too bothered about it anyway since DD can have single vaccines for measles and rubella (although she actually has natural immunity for rubella). Not being able to be vaccinated for mumps wouldn’t change my mind on MMR, measles might have done.

What the lady at the vaccine clinic said was completely logical, so no need to question it at all. How could anyone believe that it is a good idea to inject their child with so many vaccines at the same time as MMR? Anyway, I had already made my decision long before I met her, I just found it interesting that an NHS professional shared my view on the number of vaccines given (not on whether to have MMR itself though, obviously).

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 18:50

Jassy - I wonder if your username is connected to where you live. Hugely ironic given this discussion, as the clinic I mentioned is in Radlett! I don’t know whether the lady still works there as this meeting happened in 2016.

dementedpixie · 13/05/2019 19:03

How do you know she has natural immunity to rubella? The are no single rubella vaccines either so it's combined measles/rubella or just single measles.

My brother is deaf in one ear due to mumps - my parents didn't get him the mmr. He had to get himself immunised as an adult to be covered against measles

JassyRadlett · 13/05/2019 19:12

Jassy - I knew that the mumps vaccine isn’t available here and in some parts of the world, I didn’t realise that it is no longer available anywhere. I am not too bothered about it anyway since DD can have single vaccines for measles and rubella (although she actually has natural immunity for rubella). Not being able to be vaccinated for mumps wouldn’t change my mind on MMR, measles might have done.

As dementedpixie mentions, there’s no single rubella vaccine either. Exactly how much effort did you put into informing yourself before you made this informed decision?

What the lady at the vaccine clinic said was completely logical, so no need to question it at all.

Goodness, how... ovine.

It isn’t at all logical if you have even a little knowledge of how the immune system works and how it responds to vaccines as well as to the many other pathogens it encounters daily.

How could anyone believe that it is a good idea to inject their child with so many vaccines at the same time as MMR?

You don’t need to ‘believe it’. Lots of scientists have done the work for you so you don’t need to go with your gut feeling. There is a good body of data on reactions from different vaccine combinations.

Anyway, I had already made my decision long before I met her, I just found it interesting that an NHS professional shared my view on the number of vaccines given (not on whether to have MMR itself though, obviously).

Why believe this NHS professional and not the others who have actually done research in the field? Or the CDC scientists, or NIH, or the many others from around the world?

I assume you’ve heard of confirmation bias.

JassyRadlett · 13/05/2019 19:13

Jassy - I wonder if your username is connected to where you live. Hugely ironic given this discussion, as the clinic I mentioned is in Radlett! I don’t know whether the lady still works there as this meeting happened in 2016.

Nope. It’s from Nancy Mitford.

And even if it were it wouldn’t be ironic, it would be a coincidence. Don’t believe everything Alanis Morisette tells you either.

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 19:34

There is a combined measles and rubella vaccine available at the clinic where DD is due to have her measles vaccine. I was/am well aware there is no single vaccine available for rubella, however it is not necessary. We have already had DD’s immunity checked and she has got natural immunity from me, as I did from my mum (also checked when I was a child).

JassyRadlett · 13/05/2019 19:39

Then why did you say you could have single vaccines for measles and rubella? It’s a bivalent vaccine.

If you’ve swallowed the nonsense about the ‘load’ of trivalent vaccines without checking the facts, why are you sanguine about bivalent versions?

BertrandRussell · 13/05/2019 19:42

Maybe your research wasn’t quite as far reaching as you think?

DecomposingComposers · 13/05/2019 19:42

Hopefulmama34

Your decision doesn't make much sense though.

Earlier you said the only part of the mmr that you didn't want your dd to have was rubella.

Now you've been told there is no single mumps vaccine you are fine with her having measles and rubella vaccine but leaving her unvaccinated for mumps.

It all seems quite knee jerk and not much thought given to it.

Why are you not worried about her catching mumps? That can be nasty. I'm assuming you have no sons (or your husband) at risk of catching mumps?

RomanyQueen1 · 13/05/2019 19:47

Mine were vaccinated, I don't care what others do, it's up to them.
If somebody doesn't want to vaccinate that's their business.
We know that some people aren't vaccinated if it's that important to you, take extra precautions.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 13/05/2019 19:53

If your baby is tiny, your parents/
grandparents are elderly, you are having chemo... stay indoor with a face mask on become some parents selfishly won’t vaccinate?

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 19:55

Jassy - you sound like such a lovely person 🙄 Shame there isn’t a vaccine for rudeness! There is no need to be so patronising just because you don’t agree with me. I am happy with the decisions I have made regarding vaccines for my child - are you?? You seem to have a rather large chip on your shoulder. If you are so sure that all vaccines given in whatever quantity are safe, why are you being so aggressive in your reactions towards others?

Ironic/coincidence - whatever. I may not have expressed myself very well but I am incredibly tired with a lot to deal with at home. I am not stupid and have a good degree from a prestigious university, so I am capable of stringing a sentence together properly when I need to. You are really a nasty piece of work.

I’m done here, I don’t know why I bothered posting in the first place.

DecomposingComposers · 13/05/2019 20:00

We know that some people aren't vaccinated if it's that important to you, take extra precautions.

I take immunosuppressants - could you let me know what these extra precautions I can take are please?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 13/05/2019 20:01

I suggest you stay indoors in a bio hazard suit.

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 20:03

Decomposing - I am married but have just the one DD. I don’t want my husband to catch mumps but we are both united in not wanting DD to have MMR (since that is the only way in which she could be vaccinated for mumps).

Re earlier posts - I knew the single vaccine for mumps wasn’t available here, but didn’t realise that it is no longer available anywhere until someone pointed it out. Measles is the main one I was concerned about anyway. I know complications are rare (both my brother and I had measles as a child - as did most of my contemporaries at the time - and my brother also had mumps) but I don’t want to take the risk. DD had a relatively rare form of meningitis when she was just 10 weeks old so I already feel she has been very unlucky.

Hopefulmama34 · 13/05/2019 20:08

Romany - I completely agree.

DecomposingComposers · 13/05/2019 20:10

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

I think you may be right. Along with any unfortunate classmates who weren't able to be vaccinated yet will be exposed to risk.

Hopefulmama34

How does your husband feel about possibly catching mumps from your dd and being left sterile?

JassyRadlett · 13/05/2019 20:11

Jassy - you sound like such a lovely person 🙄 Shame there isn’t a vaccine for rudeness! There is no need to be so patronising just because you don’t agree with me.

Don’t you think that’s a little rich for someone who called us sheep? Is it only rudeness when it comes from someone else, just like it’s only sheep-like behaviour when it’s in others?

I’m questioning you, and pointing out your errors and inconsistencies, and also pointing out that what you rudely described as a ‘huge irony’ personally directed at me in fact wasn’t. I’m sorry you found that so much ruder than what you directed at me.

I’m sorry you don’t like having your incorrect statements questioned or debunked. I’m afraid I won’t stop doing it, because I find your sort of half-truths and fact-free assertions about vaccines really dangerous.

Because the choices you are ‘happy’ about carry real risks for others, not just your own child, as well as the risk that someone reading might think any of your decisions were based on facts.

dementedpixie · 13/05/2019 20:11

Could you not have the mmr but split it up from the usual jabs given at that age? What is your issue specifically with mmr?

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