To ask why people don't vaccinate their DC even though we know that it doesn't cause Autism?

[TheHouseOnBellSt]

www.thespainreport.com/16953/six-year-old-boy-with-diphtheria-in-catalonia-dies/

A 6 year old boy in Catalonia has died of Diphtheria. Why are people still anti-vaccinations?

Why? My SIL has not and is not vaccinating her DS. He's 14 months now and MIL is so worried.

When there was no vaccine for rubella, there were cases of congenital rubella syndrome. It simply wasn't the case that most girls got it as children and were immune for life. The vaccine has made rubella less common now, so there is even less reason to think most girls would get natural immunity before they got pregnant now.

You can't get the MMR vaccine when you are pregnant, so giving it to pregnant women won't work. Lots of pregnancies are unplanned, so giving it to women who want to get pregnant won't work.

bear. I too grew up when kids routinely had measles, myself included. Do you also recall how many kids had those little brown leather battery things that they carried around? I Do. They were hearing aids. For all the kids who had, and survived measles, but who were deaf as a result. I remember at least 4 kids in my small primary school with them. Don't see them now as kids mostly have MMR. We forget the side effects. We forget the babies dying from it because we were children. I don't want to see that back as it is cruel and unnecessary.
And in response to OP it's probably that daft (and dangerous) Middle class disease of not doing it out of selfishness based on out-of-perspective fear. To any anti vaxxer I say the same thing: my mate's son was born with a serious heart problem. He had major surgery at 10 days old and was not well enough to be vaccinated himself until he was about 5. Any contact with measles etc would have probably killed him. He needed the herd protection. Other parents with healthy kids owe it to kids like him to keep him safe. It's the right thing to do.

I sympathise with Boston a bit as I too have crohns and read extensively on the risks before vaccinating my kids. The tiny risks were far outweighed by the benefits to my kids and the herd. Glad I did it.

These threads always befuddle me because they make so many assumptions. I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm just not pro giving them to my children. I do what I believe is right for them. In no other part of parenting would you be called selfish for putting your child's health first.

I would call you selfish for putting your wants for your child first. You are basically saying your precious snowflakes are more important than anyone else's.

Screwing the community at large is not a good look. That is why the community responds the way it does.

The first medical description of children on the spectrum was by a doctor in the late 1600s. Autism/spectrum behaviors have been documented, defined, discussed, and disbelieved ever since.

Pretty sure, though, that those kids on the spectrum back in 1700 and 1800 etc weren't caused by vaccination.

Also, it is more than possible to dx spectrum behaviors in the first 18 months if doctors follow up on concerns. Dd was 5 before she was dx, but there were symptoms there from birth. Before she had MMR there were symptoms that could and should have been picked up on. Unfortunately, the NHS doctors who noted and wrote about her symptoms didn't then flag up that there were possible concerns and refer her, they simply said that her hearing was fine and made no further comment.

I could look back at when she had her MMR and comment that her behavior became more noticeable soon after. It did. But not because of the MMR, just because of developmental stages. Correlation and causality are very different things.

And yes, she inherited her condition and was born with it, which is the science behind how/why she has this condition.

sofato5miles again that assumes a lot. My eldest child had a seizure that almost killed her the same day as her vaccinations. And another after her next set. I'd defy you or anyone to put themselves or any other child through that again. My child's health is more important to me than someone else's child. I think that makes me a normal parent, not a selfish one.

This is why I'm confused. Assuming we all agree that neither vaccinating or not vaccinating is risk free. It is selfish to not vaccinate as it is a risk. But it's not selfish to demand that people vaccinate and denigrate and make them out to be awful people even though that choice also carries risk. How does that make sense?
If my child is permanently vaccine damaged because I'm guilted into giving them a vaccine how is that anymore ok than someone suffering because of a choice I made the opposite way? I'm not stupid, I realise my choice carries risk for my own child, of course I am concerned that measles will make them ill, I wish it were as simple as just going to get the vaccine and going home. But it's not.

nobody because if more than a very small number of people make the choice that the risks of vaccination are too high for their child, then the risk of illness dramatically increases for the while population. Herd immunity protects those too young to have received the vaccine, or too immune-suppressed to benefit from it, or who are too old to have received it tbemselves.

A friend of mine almost died from measles a few years ago because she stupidly didn't get her kids vaccinated (she regrets it now especially as her oldest suffered long term effects).

I agree with cheesetoastie

The level of selfishness in relation to this is just staggering. It's interesting because if you dare to leave the house 1 hour before the 48 hour rule or with a child with visible cp (even though its most infectious b4 the spots come out) they are all trilling about the immunocompromised .

I think it's been so long that people just don't remember the diseases. It leads to complacency. That said I don't actually know anyone in rl who has admitted to not vaccinating.

I watched a programme on telly and some daft bint thought that because she breastfed her children it made them far too healthy to need vaccines .

Most people do vaccinate. www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB14949

Because many people have a very poor understanding of statistics so they are unable to evaluate the difference between an anecdotal report (involving one person) and a large study (involving several thousands of people).

Because it is probably human nature to trust more what a friend or friend of a friend or even a friend of a friend of a friend says rather than government bumph so people are more likely to believe the anecdotal reports that "my friends, sister-in-law, neighbours child had the MMR vaccine and now has autism" far more than the large scale analyses that shows there is no difference in levels of autism between those who have the vaccine and those who don't.

Because people are not good at evaluating levels of risk so although they will admit there is a level of risk with both vaccinating and not-vaccinating they will give the one with lower risk (vaccinating) higher precedence than not vaccinating.

Because it is always easier not to do something than it is to do something.

Because people make the assumption that if one event precedes another event then it must be the cause. Yes, lots of children with autism have had the MMR vaccination but this does not mean that MMR was the cause.

Urgh these threads make my blood boil but I'm fascinated in a strange way so I always (stupidly) click.

My DD1 was severely disabled, she died six years ago, she was only nine. Her condition weakened her immune system and she couldn't fight off pneumonia. It wasn't the vaccines that did it to her, although at first the doctors considered this as it was shortly after her MMR vaccine. But after living with and seeing my poor baby suffer the way she did I have always said I would rather take my chances with nature (infectious diseases) than risk having my children harmed by something unnatural that I chose to put into their bodies. Yes I may not be one of the unlucky ones, but to put my child and myself into that position to maybe have to deal with the horror again, it's not even an argument for me. So all you can do is research like crazy and go with your gut, and try and keep your DCs as healthy as possible so they at least have a fighting chance to ward off any illnesses that come their way.

Incidentally I've never understood why people get so worried about non vaccinated children when theirs are vaccinated?! Surely if the vaccines work (which is why you have your children done, yes?) then they wouldn't get it anyway? Sigh.

vaccines arent 100%, they don't work for everyone/ every strain.

Tbh that said I'm not worried about my children. I worry more about LOs too young to have been vaccinated/ those who can't be.

And yes, my children ARE more important than anyone else's sofa, what a strange thing to say to anyone.

Tentaclesofdoom - i worry for those like my nephew who caught whooping cough at 4 weeks old (too young to be vaccinated). He ended up in intensive care after he stopped breathing. Link: mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-18/baby-dies-of-whooping-cough-in-perth/6329244

Tentacles, I'm sorry to hear about your dd.

I find these threads really depressing, it's not nice to see parents calling other parents selfish just for doing whatever they think is best for their own children. No parent should be made to inject their child with something that carries risks if they are uncomfortable with it, and no one has the right to criticsise them for their choice. They aren't harming their children, and other people's children do not take priority.

My children are vaccinated, although they had single MMRs. If I was doing it again I wouldn't give them rubella because they're boys.

I expect you do worry about your loved ones sunshine, that's my point. Did you not read my post?! Dear lord. It's not worth getting into a debate on here is it. It's too emotive.

It isn't something that most people who vaccinate feel that emotive about at all.

I believe that I have a duty to vaccinate my healthy children at least in part to protect those weaker. It takes a village to raise a child and all that. That isn't saying that my children are less important, it is to me considering society and the collective good. Nowhere have I said that people should be forced to vaccinate their children/ themselves. That would be just ridiculous as it is a free country and I wish it to remain that way.

But because it is a free country I am allowed to disagree with their actions/ views and imo have the right to be allowed to.

People do not vaccinate for one of two reasons.

Either they have a child who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.

Or they are ignorant and/or stupid.

^^ and that kind of reply is why it isn't possible to have a reasoned discussion about this topic.

I wish people would stop pretending that the risks from vaccinating are hidden or covered up - they are right there on the NHS website

risk assessment? the risk from vaccinating is still lower than the risk from the diseases - which means you vaccinate - right?

Unless there is a real reason why you can't I just don't get it

Why? What other reasons could there possibly be? Ignorance is not a value judgement. If somebody is not properly informed about a subject they are ignorant about it. All they need is to have it proprly explained to them then they won't be ignorant anymore.

my friend has two vax damaged brothers she has not been vaccinated because of this one brother is so severe he can't go out alone and has no understanding his mom has died the carers took him to the funeral he pointed to the coffin saying my moms in there! they will let her out soon wont they? he spoke to his sister a few weeks later asking her if she had seen his mom because she hadn't visited

its really upsetting to see

Dd1 has a chromosome disorder and severe ASD. she started regressing 3 days after the MMR. nobody (not even the geneticist can say for sure if the MMR is safe for her). she did not have the booster. and DC has not had the MMR.

I was always pro vaccine before my child regressed. And it is easy to display an aggressive pro vaccine stance if your child has never had a bad reaction.

I am aware the vaccine reactions are very rare but if one of your children has had one of those very rare reactions, you reassess if you are willing to take this risk again.

easy to slam parents if you haven't gone through the heartache.

Reasons why I worry about non-vaxxers even though I am vaccinated and any children I ever have will be too:

1. For children who are too young to receive the vaccine. Measles is particularly dangerous in the very little.
2. For children and adults who have received the vaccine but are immune suppressed
3. For children and adults who cant receive vaccines because they are immune supressed
4. Because while vaccines are great they arent always 100% effective and rely on herd immunity to maximise their effectiveness.

I know that your non vaccinated children arent continouous medieval cesspits of illness. No-one is genuinely suggesting they are. But they are walking targets for any kind of infectious disease, and once they contract one they are conduits for the rest of us. Did you hear about the Disneyland outbreak?