Why aren't Reform voters ashamed?

[TheShellBeach]

They don't seem to care that everyone will know they're racists.

It seems incredible to me that people are open about voting for them.

Their manifesto is stuffed full of promises that will appeal to many people though. Zero tax under £20k, zero tax for frontline workers, raise stamp duty, vat and iht thresholds. Abolish interest on student loans, increase spending on education and health, and defence. Introduce French style health system....... Etc etc etc

Set aside their stance in immigration, and you have a manifesto which is very pleasing, completely undeliverable of course, but resonates with a lot of people

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

It’s so boring, lazy and immature to just chuck out the racist card.

Yes, many voters/candidates will be racist. But that will be the case in all parties.

I would never vote for Reform, but they seem to be the only party who recognise that the NHS is fundamentally not working as it is, and it’s not simply about how much money you pump into it. The business model is no longer working, and everyone is up in arms when there is any discussion about considering other options that are more like European systems that work

Word salad. You're perfectly aware that Islamist countries contain Muslims.

Why am I not "ashamed?"
I'm actually an immigrant (from a post Communist country), which by the way doesn't have problems like the UK and puts their people first.
I cannot vote, so asked my husband, who is three decades older and as a lifetime Conservative voter who wanted to spoil his vote to go for Reform and I'm very proud he did.
I tell you what is a terrible shame:
There is better quality of life in the bloody
Czech Republic than here by any means.
And no, I cannot go back, because I cannot just leave husband to everything.

Girls experience more sexual harassment and sexual violence, as well as other misogynistic behaviours, from boys and men who look up to people like Andrew Tate and his imitators than they do from trans women. Anybody who doesn't condemn those attitudes is condoning that, IMO.

You do realise that the 'racist individual' was a canvasser and it has turned out he was not a genuine example of the people who will vote for Reform. Channel 4 along with the BBC are trying so hard without foundation to harass, diminish and smear anyone who has a view on the party's manifesto let alone admitting to voting for them as a thick racist. Sounds very familiar to the rhetoric around Brexit. 😐
Labour, Lib dem etc voters maybe should also be ashamed of themselves for voting the way they are knowing what the policies of those parties are. But no it seems on MN -( that echo chamber) that the only shamed people are those that think differantly.

It does become so tedious the some posters on here cannot tolerate ANY differance of opinion let alone debate it in a civilised fashion.

For what it is worth - I am not a Reform voters so ergo I am apparently an OK person and not a raging racist. BUT I do hope they win some seats to shake up the status quo in the HoC and add to an effective opposition to the main parties policies.

On what basis did you want your husband to vote Reform?

It's boring, lazy and immature to pretend that the problem with Reform candidates is equivalent to racist candidates in other parties.

No other party has the same proportion of candidates espousing extreme racist views. No other party has the same crossover with the BNP as Reform.

The comments made by Reform candidates are more extreme than in any other parties and made in higher volumes than any other party.

Anyone who really believes that Reform can operate without a racist agenda needs to acknowledge how serious and widespread the racism is and then come up with ways to purge it from the party, not bluster and minimise and pretend it's not happening.

Reform supporters need to accept that their candidates are saying black people are inferior, that asylum seekers should be shot on the beaches, that they're using racial slurs - and they need to challenge it, not say it's 'pub banter'. If they don't do that, then how can they complain about being called racist? If you accept and endorse racism then how else can it be interpreted?

This ^^

Because in my opinion there is no other choice.
Greens, LibDems, or Labour?
No thank you.

You're not really answering the question. What is it about Reform that appeals to you?

Labour have worked really hard to purged antisemitism from the ranks. I couldn't vote for them under Corbyn. But under Starmer, they've accepted they have a problem with antisemitism and they've acted to get rid of it.

Reform and their supporters are still loudly insisting that they don't have a problem with racism and so they aren't dealing with it. So it's completely different.

When threads like this are started it stops discussion. Telling reform voters they are thick and racist is part of the problem that is driving people to vote for a harder right party, and was likely a driving force behind Brexit. Let everyone discuss whatever they want without insulting them. Get some daylight to it all.

In some areas of the country immigration is affecting people’s lives, but it cannot be discussed without accusations of racism flying around.
Women’s rights are under threat.
NHS and education are in shit states and no one seems to have a clue what to do.

14 years of Tories, a long time without a strong opposition, things feel like they’re getting worse and worse yet there are topics which seem to be fudged around and not actually addressed. People are desperately worried about what the next few years will bring, and there is no political party that looks able to deliver anything particularly useful.

I would normally be a Labour voter but I can’t now because of their stance of gender ideology. This year I’ll be spoiling my ballot paper.
’I’m not voting reform, but it doesn’t take much to see why so many people do. Farage has taken the opportunity to openly discuss the issues some are having, rather than the shut down discussion tactics used by the left so much today.

Reform might not be the answer, but honestly in so many areas all other political parties available are shite and not an option to many people.

Mainly stopping the boats.
Protecting females and female spaces.
The tax stuff doesn't concern me much.
And to husband, as I just asked, "possibility of
change", which he didn't elaborate on.

That person isn't standing as a Reform candidate though. He's just a canvasser/supporter. Every party will have some people with undesirable and problematic views among their supporters. It doesn't define the party. Unless you think it does? In which case let's talk about anti-semitism in Labour and the Greens.

“He's been very clever, because even when she disagrees with him on an issue she will say "but at least he's honest" - he's managed to convince an awful lot of people that he's not like other politicians, and they like that.“

This is an excellent point. And is EXACTLY how Boris Johnson got so many people to vote for him in his landslide 2019 victory. And is also why so many vote for Trump in the US.

People see these men ‘who are not like your usual politician’ and see them as a change to the status quo. But it’s naïve to think they have anyone’s best interests at heart. These types are just out for themselves and their careers (as are many politicians no doubt) but these people are worse.

In my opinion though we must look a bit deeper at why these types are so attractive. And who is voting for them. I think Reform voters are motivated by resentment of the cost of living crisis, the increasing wealth divide etc. The people of Clacton feel left behind and forgotten about. They perceive that immigrants are to blame for all of this. Immigrants are scapegoats for all of the problems they face. Farage knows this and is cleverly tapping into the resentment and the scapegoating. Reality is he doesn’t give a shit about you.

Why are the boats such a big concern for you?

Reform want to get rid off the Equality Act which actually protects women's spaces.

Reform's plans to stop the boats to send them back to France are lies.

But why does Reform have so many racist canvassers? Why in such greater proportions than the other parties?

And Labour have worked very hard to purge antisemitism from the party under Starmer. I don't know about the Greens.

So it's OK for you to come here but not other immigrants?

Reform's plans to stop the boats to send them back to France are lies.

Of course they are! Can you imagine the logistics of trying to do that?

SMH.
That's such a strange reason, isn't it.
"I'm all right, Jack" - how utterly selfish.

Yes he's a sanctimonious prick and that was a condescending thing to say.

But wasn't that also the standard line among Remainers when talking about people intending to vote for Brexit, and in fact, the way that they still talk about them just about every day since?

Cant say that I am surprised that nothing was learnt by so many posters ralying to the cry to call others racist.

But then if they wanted a discussion they would have to actually admit that people are stuck and trying to get a better deal for themselves.

Especially when their calls for help go unheard.

I have yet to hear a racist say they are a racist. In fact the racists I have met generally preface their awful opinions with “I am not a racist but …”