Conservative voters: how do you honestly feel about the gamble scandal

[sunshinegrey]

That is it really
BTW I’m not voting labour (or the tories)
But just curious if anyone changed their mind after betting gate?

The last Labour government didn't end well - five Labour MPs jailed for fraud/false accounting, one given a supervision order in the expenses scandal:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/may/20/mps-expenses-elliot-morley-sentenced
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20248915
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/jan/07/david-chaytor-jailed-mps-expenses
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/mar/31/jim-devine-sentenced-expenses-fruad
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/feb/10/mps-expenses-eric-illsley-sentence
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25492017

No it isn't. You're conflating two different things.

The problem is of course that the prisons are full and the court backlogs are increasing.

news.sky.com/story/amp/operation-safeguard-government-triggers-crisis-measure-to-tackle-overcrowded-prisons-13132620

www.lawsociety.org.uk/contact-or-visit-us/press-office/press-releases/crown-court-backlog-causes-exposed

You can't defend any Tory scandals @clavinova - all you can do is copy and paste articles about Labour in the hope that people won't notice how much worse Tory behaviour has been and continues to be. It's so desperate, and so pathetic but I realise that's all the Tories have left now - attempts to pull the wool over people's eyes and draw false equivalences.

I am really looking forward to this time next week.

I don't think I am - it would be insider information if you had a tip-off or access to non-published information that confirmed someone was going to be handed a position and you could place a bet on that outcome e.g. Sajid Javid becoming health secretary - although Wes Streeting claims his bet was an educated guess.

OrangeMacaron
attempts to pull the wool over people's eyes and draw false equivalences

How can Labour MPs being sent to prison for fraud be 'false equivalence'?

Yes, the staff involved in the Tory betting scandal had access to the privileged information that a July election would be called. Odds were on an autumn election. Because of the positions held in Sunak's inner circle, the Tories involved had inside knowledge that Sunak was going to call a July election and they placed bets with the insider knowledge this was going to happen.

Very different to candidates betting on the outcome of their seats (which is still unacceptable).

But please do copy and paste more articles about Labour as I am well aware you can't defend the actions in question. Tory strategy on this is to drag heels and pretend a lengthy investigation is taking place and therefore nothing can be known - it's actually very clear and simple. Sunak knows who knew the Juky date and all that needs investigating is when the bets were placed. Of course, the slower he can go, the more diluted the scandal becomes. But that's the Tory way - never be accountable, never take responsibility, just deflect deflect deflect.

I'm sure you have plenty of deflection to hand, @clavinova, go ahead with the C+P button in the hope we'll all forget what we were talking about.

OrangeMacaron
Very different to candidates betting on the outcome of their seats

Not the example/s I gave.

You gave examples of people betting on outcomes they didn't know or hadn't yet been decided. You referred to 'more betting' as though all political betting is the same as what the Tories are currently implicated in. You are desperately reaching for a way to convince people that Labour are just as bad - a shame after so many years you've spent campaigning for the Tories on Mumsnet that you can never come up with anything positive about them or any defence of their behaviour, only endless finger pointing at Labour.

OrangeMacaron
You gave examples of people betting on outcomes they didn't know or hadn't yet been decided

I'm pretty sure if it turns out that Wes Streeting (or any other person) had privileged pre-announcement information on Sajid Javid being made health secretary and they placed a bet on that information it would be regarded the same.

Tories: multiple members have done something awful.
Clavinova: oh but let's imagine one Labour person might have done something similar even though that's not the case, if I can create some doubt and confusion that's all that matters. Never mind even attempting to defend or justify the Tories, let me just find some desperate means to attack Labour and try to make out it's the same thing when it absolutely isn't.

I don't think there is much point discussing - you carry on clinging to that straw!

I didn't say Gordon Brown left it, I said Gordon Brown's government left the note.

And you are totally aware of the context and history of notes like that and the way in which it's been entirely distorted by the Tory party for political advantage. The controversy of that note has been debunked and yet here you are wheeling it out again, knowing it doesn't mean what you pretend it does. Because Tories can't defend the past fourteen years and have to scramble around for reasons to attack Labour, even nonsensical ones like this.

The point still stands. As pp also said, it has been debunked. It's a red herring that gets thrown in by desperate Tories.

What kind of note will this government leave? We fucked the entire country, tough shit?

This government's note will be 'the country is absolutely fucked but even though we've been in charge fourteen years it definitely isn't our fault because...Angela Rayner???'

Genuine question, would you be happy if the Lib Dems won the election rather than Labour? You seem to attack anyone who has different thoughts and priorities?

OrangeMacaron
Tories: multiple members have done something awful

I would argue that this former Labour MP is more awful than the betting crowd. Why are Labour letting Keith Vaz stand again?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/25/labour-silence-on-disgraced-keith-vazs-record-could-see-him-re-elected-mayor-warns

Sticking to the strategy @clavinova!

Vaz was expelled from the Labour Party and is standing for One Leicester.

Not sure what Labour can do about that unless you think Opposition parties should be able to block choices made by other parties - I guess that would be prepping the groundwork for the Conservatives.

OrangeMacaron
The controversy of that note has been debunked

Liam Byrne is hardly a reliable witness - see my two links above.
Maudling's 'note' wasn't even a note - he was talking to a personal friend (Callaghan);

I cite the autobiography of my noble friend Lord Callaghan of Cardiff. Writing about the first day that he was in office as Chancellor, he says:

"I was sitting at what had been Reggie Maudling's desk in the ground-floor study at 11 Downing Street. While I was reading the briefs which Treasury officials had prepared against the possibility of a Labour victory, he was in the upstairs flat with his wife, packing their belongings. On his way out, he put his head round the door, carrying a pile of suits over his arm. His comment was typical: 'Sorry, old cock, to leave it in this shape. I suggested to Alec this morning that perhaps we should put up the bank rate but he thought that he ought to leave it all to you."

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldhansrd/vo970514/text/70514-02.htm 

How is Keir Starmer's moral high ground upheld if Keith Vaz is a Labour candidate?

I know this genuine question is directed at another poster, but I'd be happy with Lib Dems - I support rejoining the customs union and single market and I'm not a fan of the Labour VAT on private schools policy. There are some Lib Dem policies I disagree with, just as there are some Labour ones too. My ideal scenario is a Labour government with Lib Dem opposition and some healthy differences and challenges between the two parties, as opposed to the toxicity, incompetence and criminality of the Tories. I'm not intolerant of different opinions; I'm intolerant of hopeless, crooked politicians lining their pockets instead of running the country.

I would much rather LD than Tory. My anger is reserved for the particularly awful current government.

Vaz is not a Labour candidate, maybe you should read before copy and pasting?

My apologies - a parliamentary candidate.