Conservative voters: how do you honestly feel about the gamble scandal

[sunshinegrey]

That is it really
BTW I’m not voting labour (or the tories)
But just curious if anyone changed their mind after betting gate?

Why have they been doing it? The betting against their own seat?

Is it simply because they have insider information about expected results, based on all the analysis and phone calls to voters etc in the run up to the election?

In which case it's a pretty identical issue of using insider knowledge to beat the bookie.

And would you accept the person thought it was a tradition and it wasn't so no harm done if he was a Tory? Or would you still be going on about it now? I think I know the answer.
It's the hypocrisy that gets me every time - when there's a Labour gaffe there's always a good reason for it and it's brushed aside. When there's a Tory gaffe, it's dredged up over and over again and no explanation is acceptable.

Two sentences that go hand in hand.

Yes I would.

It's hardly insider knowledge! We all have access to the polls and predictions.

Oh don't be so silly and simplistic. It's this constant narrative that Labour voters are the only ones who 'care' that really turns people like me off.

It's the Tory hypocrisy that gets me. No matter how reprehensible the behaviour of someone in this government, immediately there is this desperate trawling to point the finger at Labour. Earlier on this thread, Raab's bullying came up - no attempt to hold him to account, just straight away a generalisation that there is bullying in Labour (no specific examples given). It's a relentless race to the bottom, and endless erosion of standards and expectations, an absolute refusal to accept the abhorrent actions we have seen over and over again from the Tories. It's the behaviour we see of children misbehaving in class - 'but miss, he was doing it too!!!' in the hope it will deflect the blame. It sticks in the craw.

Well, no. Because the people who had privileged access to the election date knew for a fact there was going to be a July election. They weren't betting on a likely outcome - they knew for sure.

Of course it is! Each local party holds lists of people who have told them they've voted their way at previous elections and they they phone and talk to them in the run up to the election (you must have had phone calls), they have volunteer doorsteppers who feed back details on the mood and questions. This is all rich data belonging to the local political party, and certainly not public.

No phone calls and only one door step visit.

But plenty of other people are conducting polls, and there is a theory that these are more reliable as people can be more honest when asked by someone the consider to be impartial rather than by someone of a political party.

Hardly the same as knowing a date in advance of placing a bet.

That said I don't think politicians should be betting on political issues of any nature - that includes bets with Piers Morgan.

I'm generally a Tory voter, but this batch need clearing out and they need to lose. I also want them strong enough that they can build back in a couple of parliaments, so I don't want them to have a kicking. I find Rishi quite likable but I think he's a crap politician, he appears to dither and he should have suspended them all on day one.

I never said no Tories care. It's just that those two sentences do seem to go together - the people I've seen say they're voting Tory also say they don't care. They don't care that Tories have trashed education, health, cost of living bla bla. You can't really deny that.

No one involved in the elections should be betting on the outcome - it's unethical. Hence the one Labour candidate who did so being suspended and having his donation returned (note how long it took Sunak to act on those implicated in the other betting scandal, also note how the Tories held on to Frank Hester's donation).

But it is different to what the multiple Tory insiders who placed bets on the July date have done, so please stop trying to shift the focus away from serious Tory wrongdoing by trying to pretend Labour are in the same league here.

Of course they have better information. That's their job.

And yes, it is exactly the same. It's using insider information gained from their work in politics to be able to beat bookie odds.

Not the worst crime in the world in either case - the amounts aren't big and the bookie will absorb them - but it is financial misconduct and shows poor judgement and a lack of respect for democracy - exactly the same for both.

@Zonder

"I never said no Tories care"

Few people would blame you if you did. The don't care, they've never cared. They've actively voted against every kind of social reform or justice (including the formation of the NHS) since their inception in 1834. Just think about that for a moment and how it aligns with "caring". People wonder why the Labour party was formed. They should read the history books, you don't have to go back to the mists of the past either.

Same league. Same misdemeanor.

Why do you think it's different?

Apart from that it's Labour, so they Can Do No Wrong. Because they're the good guys.

Of course it isn't exactly the same. Betting on the outcome of an election is still betting on the unknown. Unethical for candidates to do it, not illegal.

Betting that there will be a July election when the odds are in favour of an autumn election because you know the prime minister is about to call it because of your privileged access is illegal because you know the outcome.

Cross posted with you but I hope my previous answer makes the difference clear and you can understand how they are not the same misdemeanor.

Something doesn't need to have a completely certain pre-ordained result in order to be insider information. It's just privileged information which isn't publically known.

Also @strawberrybubblegum I have repeatedly stated that the Labour candidate in question did do something wrong and I support the swift and decisive action the party has taken to deal with him so I'm unclear where you got the Labour are good guys and can do no wrong from?

Because you keep minimising it and saying it's completely different, when it's exactly the same thing!

But it is different when the insider knowledge is, in fact, a dead cert rather than a stronger likelihood. We are talking about two different things there.

We have one Labour candidate, along with candidates from other parties, who have placed a bet on themselves losing - the Labour candidate has been dealt with.

We have multiple Tory officers in government using privileged knowledge to bet on a certain and decided outcome in what is clearly a ring of people working together to profit illegally.

But you want to argue that it's all the same and also not a big deal, which is the Tory response to all incidences of Tory corruption, sleaze, scandal and lawbreaking which characterise the last, disgraceful, decade of government.

It isn't the same thing, I really don't believe that you actually don't understand this. It's very disingenuous!

It isnt exactly the same thing and its a nonsense to suggest otherwise.

One bet has a guaranteed outcome. Its theft to my mind.

The second type of bet is based on analysis but has no certainty. Polling analysis predicts likely outcomes it does not provide a definite outcome - otherwise why would we bother voting at all!! We can call the election now!

For all they knew their opponents could drop out.
And as we know many people will turn out to vote for their preferred candidate regardless of how crap they or their party are.

Still poor behaviour but of a different magnitude.