Labour Party and gender

[Mobley52]

I've seen quite a few threads where people have said they would not vote for Labour because of their stance on gender.

Would somebody be able to explain in simple terms why this is please

Many thanks

The same way i've been doing it since i was old enough to vote? Making my MP aware of issues and ensuring they hear about them. Hopefully my new MP will actually reply or acknowledge unlike the man we've had for the last 10+ years. When i emailed about me being on a ward earlier this year that was mixed sex due to staffing shortages and bed shortages, radio silence from him.

Bad luck. I was around it in an agency for 6 months and it wasn’t for me

My worry is that (especially if Labour win a very large majority) Labour's party line about gender issues will be, "The majority of people agree with us that trans women are women, that is why they elected us with a huge majority, so suck it up."

They are already claiming that this never comes up on the doorstep and that it is a fringe issue, when we know that it does come up a lot.

If they win a huge majority they'll be even less inclined to listen to opposing views.

It'll be like when remainers lent their votes to Labour in the hope of getting a second referendum or at the very least a softer version of Brexit and were then told that they had voted to get Brexit done. I don't ever want to be told that I voted in favour of self ID or a trans inclusive ban on conversion therapy, so I can't vote Labour.

I have also now spoiled my ballot paper so I can't vote for anyone.

rotten luck right?

I’m sure some enjoy working in SM

But to link it back to the topic I am reminded of the idea of the attention economy

People investing their head space, time and eyes on people they dislike is as much as a profit maker for that person as anything

If someone like Tate can get your attention it’s useful to them

personally, i'm of the opinion that the Tories are worse for Women. We need many things to be the focus and i don't see how any of the other parties can do it unfortunately.
I don't think Labour will see their majority based purely on their TW/Single Sex spaces stance. Considering the vast majority of people who intend to vote Labour list the cost of living, supporting the NHS and affordable housing as the clear policies that matter most to them.

oh agreed, i was interacting with it arguing with his weird cult like fanboys so the algorithm was showing me more and more. Which is why i had to block his name so i wasn't doing it anymore.

Good luck with this but if Labour are not listening before the vote they are less likely to after getting mandate

Yes, yes, I GET it.

All of this means that Labour will take advantage of how desperate people are for change in other policy areas to force through their beliefs about gender even though most people disagree with them. That is exactly what I am worried about.

Ultimately, the situation we are in is that the Tories are so fucking terrible that the country is willing to elect the people saying a woman can have a penis, probably with a huge majority.

And that is fucking terrifying.

Where are the grown ups?

You’d be wrong. I genuinely very rarely report and then only for outrageously misogynist, ageist or ableist rhetoric. I couldn’t see what was wrong with it in fact and I’d be quite interested to know why it was deleted.

Fair enough.

but again, i don't see what you think they are going to push through? Do you believe that they will not allow rape crisis centres, NHS wards and such to be single sex spaces? Wes Streeting is pretty vocal on this

I think they are gaslighting us all about what single sex means.

They're saying they won't bring in self ID but they will make it easier for people to get gender recognition certificates, which is essentially what self ID is.

They've ruled out clarifying the Equality Act to make it clear that sex means biological sex, not legal sex. So I worry that means that whenever they say single sex they mean legal sex, i.e. female includes males with a GRC, which there will now be more of.

There's still no explanation of how males with a GRC can be allowed into female only spaces whilst males without a GRC can be kept out of them.

There are Labour MPs who have basically dismissed the Cass report. Will Labour implement its recommendations or will it be quietly binned?

Will Labour go further than the Tories have currently done and ensure that women have access to single sex rape crisis groups? Seems unlikely.

Do you trust Labour to follow through with guidance for schools to teach gender identity theory as belief rather than fact, when it is a belief that almost all of them apparently hold? I personally don't.

There is some speculation that the suspicious quietness from the likes of Stonewall in the run up to this election is because Labour have made shady backroom deals with them to STFU while Labour say vaguely reassuring things to gender critical voters to get their votes, and then as soon as they're in government they'll implement their full gamut of "trans friendly" policies.

In short, I don't trust them at all. I think the UK has recently made some progress in this area, alone in the English speaking world, which could have repercussions everywhere, including for my DD who isn't currently growing up in the UK. But I fear that under Labour we will go backwards again.

"There are Labour MPs who have basically dismissed the Cass report. Will Labour implement its recommendations or will it be quietly binned?"
They have said they will implement the findings from the Cass Report.

And in the debate he referred to it is Female Only spaces. Considering Transwomen are not female, i would assume (and hope) he means biological sex. Considering the work he did he's not exactly blind to the need for rape/refuge crisis centers and it's a bit disingenuous to portray him as uncaring on those issues.

They alone out of the parties speak about VAWG and how they want to reduce it on their manifesto. For a lot of people i know thats one of the main points TO vote for them on.

Clearly he's treading a fine line considering TRA think he's being awful and GC say the same. So he's not exactly appeasing the other side is he?

Labour are yet to answer how they square talking about biological women and giving access to men with a GRC

Do you know which spaces men with a GRC will have access to under Labour?

Did you watch the debate? Where i believe the example given was a rape crisis centre (or refuge centre) and he reiterated female only spaces. Is he supposed to list every single one when he is on a time limit?
TW are not biologically female so would not be under a female only space.

Yes it would be nice to know after over a year which spaces will allow men with a GRC to have access

A statement or interview with Dodds would be fine

For some reason this very basic question has been avoided for a long time.

I can see it’s in Labour’s interest to keep avoiding this until after the GE, but how does that help women who do want single sex spaces?

A refuge is one space. What about others?

but again, who has given 100% clarity on this? none except maybe Reform but thats beyond unhelpful for women.

I agree it's not good enough that we haven't been given clarity from anyone. Disgraceful even.

I would have liked the EqA amendment to biological sex

But I’m also a bit hmm at Starmer using the refuge example in the debate. It sounds like he hasn’t thought through whether a test case would stand up for a retailer or gym in court

The refuge example is the 'biggest' one in that regard though as it's a highly politicized issue so easier to speak about. Also i'm assuming these centres aren't private businesses so central government have more visibility of the issue. That's my take on it though. Everyone i've met agrees on these centers being single sex even those who feel TWAW.

The issue i have is i don't trust any of the other parties with the EqA. And certainly not a party who wants to remove us from the ECHR. That is an even more dangerous position for women.

Are you ok with men with GRCs having access to other spaces?

Not just why it was deleted, but who reported it, seeing as MNHQ has a reactive policy; they aren't reading the thread! 🤔

what spaces? i don't agree with communal changing rooms at all - even as single sex. Toilets, i really don't see it making much of an issue considering the majority of women will be attacked by a man they know rather than a random stranger. So TW with a GRC not having access to women's toilets doesn't really seem like much of a win in regards to tangible results.

i'd be surprised if they didn't have anything automated for certain words - i doubt they'd want to rely on people reporting for some extreme examples which i won't name. But in this instance, it wasn't warranted.