Voting for Reform

[Behappyandbehave]

Would this be such a bad idea? I hate labour and tories. But I don't know enough about Reform.

Do some research and then see if their values align with yours and whether you agree with their policies.

Their main policy is net zero migration, so if you particularly hate foreigners then they are the party for you. Otherwise, maybe pick someone else.

What makes you want to vote for them rather than a Lib Dem, Green or Independent? Is it just you don't want to vote for Labour or Conservative? Or do you agree with their policies? You are free to vote for whatever party you want!

Definitely vote for them if you agree with their views

x.com/ByDonkeys/status/1797651718852804923?t=E0q7Ol_4y82PamFAXs5f2Q&s=19

Rather depends how much of a misanthrope you are. If strongly so, then Reform may indeed be for you.

If not, there are so many other options that aren’t the tories or labour.

I would not vote for them even if someone paid by 17 million quid

I'm voting for Reform.

Not necessarily because I hope that they will win, but I'm hoping enough protest votes for them will enable an actual conversation to open up around immigration, without the name calling.

Years of downplaying and ignoring concerns has just allowed more extreme feelings to grow.

Just being told 'it's good for the economy, shut up bigot' doesn't really work when gdp per capita has gone down despite very high levels of immigration.

They want to cut taxes and fund private healthcare vouchers for those who have to wait for nhs healthcare.

Sounds great but where are the fairies and the unicorns.

Look how well those 'protest' votes went with Brexit... 🙄

75% of migration is healthcare and social care workers. In addition to students (our universities rely on overseas fees to pay for the local students who do go into debt and whether they pay it back is dependent on future earnings; DH is the only one of his siblings to pay back his student loan in full in his 30s and that was because I helped him overpay £10k into the loan balance due to having no student loan of my own as an ex international student).

unless we pay our staff more and train more staff domestically, we need healthcare and social care workers to look after an ageing population. our unemployment rate is fairly low and the economically inactive are a combination of people who are already caring for family members, students, early retirees (like they want to do manual work for minimum wage) and sick/depressed people (not sure you want a 25 year old depressed person who can go out without a panic attack wiping your nan's arse).

There are a lot of things we can have done to mitigate this but i am not a big fan of old people sitting in their own urine and faeces because there aren't enough care workers..

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/how-has-the-work-visa-system-changed-since-brexit/

Why does wanting immigration to be controlled equate to 'hating foreigners'? That's quite a stretch.

I wouldn't vote for them even if I agreed with their policies.

They're not a party, they're a company that puts up candidates. Why does that matter - because they don't have members to determine policy and hold them to account. They have directors who decide what they'll do. A non-democratic organisation trying to get democratically elected.

Plus, Nigel Farage, Richard Tice and Isabel oakeshott seem to be the worst kind of people - I wouldnt let them look after a dog, let alone the country.

They have no costed policies. Their "costing" document looks like it was thrown together in 5 mins by an intern.

Farage is very good at shouting about the problems but has very little substance when coming up with solutions.

If you want an insurance based health care system, much more privatisation, removal from the ECHR (Set up to protect citizens from their own governments), huge cuts to services and a tax cut for the biggest companies, then Farage is your guy.

Reform is a registered business with Farage as its main shareholder. Its a grift designed to line his own pocket.

Not for me thanks.

@lifechangingsausageroll because the people who claim to want to ‘control’ immigration never say how they want it controlled. It’s just vague, arm waving, us and them populist nonsense.

We now have a points system and it costs well trained, desperately needed specialists in all sorts of fields forced to pay thousands for visas, thousands into the NHS (despite also paying income tax and NIs) and thousands if they dare want to become British citizens after they’ve contributed.

That would only be fair in my mind if we applied the same to brits. Most Brits never contribute the amount they take out of the system. Most Brits get free primary and secondary education (quite rightly) which costs a fortune. Most that go to uni never pay back the loans. Most cost much more to the nhs and social care over their lifetimes. Many take more in benefits than they’ve ever put in. Quite a few would fail a formal English test as adults. Almost no Brits would pass the ridiculous Life In the UK test.

So until you come up with what you mean by ‘controls’ on immigration, I’m going to advocate for the equally nebulous policy for Brits having to meet the same standards - how many points would you score?

All the best,

A pissed off Brit - 90 points.

17 million for putting a cross in their box.

Yep, they'd get my vote for that.

Farage is standing because trump got convicted, looks more likely to lose so Farage isn't relying on some cushty US job/tour circuit à la Liz Truss.

People who oppose immigration on the basis that we should help our own usually don't want to help our own either. They're suddenly benefit scroungers etc.

Immigrants benefit the economy. The pensioners who love Farage have no contingency plan for who will fund their pensions/provide their personal care if there are no immigrants to do it.

You dismiss people's concerns as "vague, arm waving, us and them populist nonsense."

The you go on to talk in very narrow monetary terms about people's cash contributions and withdrawals from society.

I am not sure if your claims about how much people put in and take out and how many pay off student loans are based on data.

Concerns about immigration aren't limited to how much money immigrants may or may not be contributing - in fact what you posted is a longer version of what a poster above mentioned as "they are good for the economy so shut up bigot".

I'll be voting Reform. Immigration has had a huge and detrimental effect on where I live. It's very easy to be a pro immigration Liberal when you live in a middle class white enclave.

I think you have a valid point, but I don't think voting reform is going to help. The kind of crass people who call you a bigot for wanting to even discuss immigration are hardly going to suddenly wish to engage in a proper debate because you voted for a questionable outfit led by a very questionable person.

They have decent agricultural proposals. Supporting more apprenticeships, small farmer not being paid to grow wild flowers but food. Stopping supermarkets price fixing so British farmers produce at a loss and we get dependent on exports and support local farm shops etc
Not many farmers on MN but interested to hear their views.

It won't though. All that will happen is there is much more risk of a hung parliament and stagnation for 5 years.

Apart from anything else that tactic of calling people stupid bigots doesn't work - exhibit 1 Brexit

"Controlled" is one word for the idea. Even with the "hostile environment" (making the country more shit to make it less appealing to live here), huge costs for visas, deportation of the Windrush deportations etc., the current government have seen an increase in net migration. What would it take for net zero migration? More of the same? Expulsions? Would you like to subject your loved ones to this?

@Behappyandbehave I would advise to go onto each party website and see what sits right with you.
Lib Dem’s and Reform go into quite a bit of detail so it should help you decide.

I agree. It doesn't help to dismiss genuine concerns by the predictable put downs of 'bigot' and 'racist'.
If there can be no room for discussion, there will be a movement to the right - as is happening in many European countries.